Comments on: Is This An Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit?

By: david bychkov

david bychkov — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 08:28:15 +0000

Joe, Dr. Ben!
Thank you for encouragement. I will try to write something from Edwards, cause I really like him, although his very thoughtful works really required to be strongly focused. But they are very accurate and challenging in the same time. I have read him in Russian. We have some good translations, and for me to read him in English will be not easy thing. Dr. Ben, my way of reading him is very similiar to yours, though.

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:11:08 +0000

Ben, I know what you are saying. It’e so easy to think “I know this already” and respond with a big yawn. But when I interact with thoughtful Christians, either in person or through their writings, I see that there is so much that I am utterly clueless about. Last month, I re-read The Open Secret by Newbigin and was deeply challenged in my view of how the Spirit works through the Bible in the context of intercultural missions. He raises some issues that are so provocative and eye-opening that they made me question my fundamental understanding of evangelism and discipleship, and my understanding of the gospel itself. Not the facts of the gospel, but the implications for how we welcome sinners into the fold and disciple them. The gospel is radical and continually challenges everyone in the church, no matter who they are, Without the witness of the Spirit, we are clueless. I will try to write about this sometime.

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:43:15 +0000

Thanks, Joe, for your 5 articles on the Holy Spirit. Responding to Joe and David L, I think that 1 Corinthians 2 explains quite explicitly (and mysteriously) how the Holy Spirit and Scripture work together. Scripture was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, and we need divine illumination by the same Holy Spirit when we read the Bible in order to understand it. Because of this mysterious interplay between the Holy Spirit and Scripture, the gospel is always fresh and new as it deepens our gratitude toward the grace of God, and it also disturbs and distresses us when it convicts us of our sin.

After 30 years of being a Christian, it is so easy for me to spontaneously think that “I already know this.” Such an attitude makes me either proud because of empty superiority, or tired because there is then no more new discovery that the Scripture and the Spirit can reveal to me, or more likely both.

Surely, we need many theological topics, which I am slowly beginning to appreciate more these days. At the same time, a eye catching topic like “Why I don’t like UBF” would also be fun! :-) And yes, the view counts will surely shoot up.

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:28:47 +0000

Hi David,

I’ve noticed that you have made several references to Jonathan Edwards, whom I have been trying to read on and off for the last few years. But it is more off than on, because his writings require tremendous focus and concentration to read. As Joe suggested, please do share with us Edward’s main points from what you have read. I’m wondering if you read it in English, or is it translated?

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:57:40 +0000

The relationship between the Spirit and Scripture is a rich topic that I want to explore in the future. I agree that the Holy Spirit does not contradict Scripture, because he is the author of Scripture. But the Spirit often contradicts a community's prevailing understanding of Scripture (there are plenty of examples of this seen within the Bible itself). In practice, I think that everyone who claims to be following the leading of the Holy Spirit will also claim that what he or she is doing is biblically justified. Experience can be easily misinterpreted and misused, but the Bible can be misapplied and misused as well, and the latter may be more prevalent than the former, especially in churches that claim to have a high view of Scripture. There should be a wonderful freedom in the Christian life, a freedom that comes by walking in the Spirit rather than outwardly obeying a written law. How to experience that while remaining true to Scripture and not misusing one's freedom is not an easy thing to describe. But it lies at the heart of what the gospel is all about.

By: David L

David L — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:40:00 +0000

I think that the 20th century explosion of charismatic theology is both very interesting and disturbing. I am personally very wary of certain manifestations of “the gifts.” While I think it is a good idea not to limit the Holy Spirit in what He can do, or how He works, He never goes against the Bible like you said. There are definitely charismatics who focus on the Bible as the ultimate authority, unfortunately, there are MANY more that believe experience trumps revelation. In other words, one’s experience is applied to the Bible, instead of the Bible being applied to judge one’s experience. I am not against experience, but there is a more sure word of prophesy that we have, and that word should judge everything we do.

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:40:09 +0000

David, thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I’m glad that you find this interesting.

I’ve noticed that when we post articles on UBFriends that are specifically about UBF, discussing issues and problems in own ministry, people seem to get excited and leave lots of comments, and the number of page views goes up. But when we post articles that are of a more theological nature, articles about God and how he works, our readers seem less interested. I was joking with my wife about this. I thought about changing the title of this article to “What I don’t like about UBF” or “Why I’m leaving UBF” or something like that, just to see if the number of page views suddenly goes up.

No, I haven’t read that book by Jonathan Edwards. If you have time and would like to list some of his “distinguishing marks”, please do.

By: david bychkov

david bychkov — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:21:40 +0000

thanks for wonderful series of posts, Joe. All is very interesting and important and touching theological and practical issues. I’m sorry that I’m not commenting much this interesting things… for me it is not easy to write thoughtful comment in English, and need plenty of time for it. But I want to write something later once will have enough time.
I’m curious, have you read “Distinguishing Marks of a Work of the Spirit of God“by Jonathan Edwards? He has some interesting insights. which were avoid in your works. At least for me they were interesting. I think I could point some. I’m just not sure if it will be interesting for others.