Comments on: What To Do and Believe Daily http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-18616 Thu, 28 May 2015 14:25:21 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-18616 This is a reminder from Facebook from a year ago today of one of my posts that is clearly not one of my better moments. This post tries to “tell others what to do” instead of learning and practicing empathetic listening!

Over the years and decades, I’ve often been accused of NOT LISTENING, of insisting on being right, of arguing incessantly to prove my point, and of always wanting to have the last word. This is really rather disturbing…especially to myself.

Thank God for dear friends who love me and bear with me. They graciously “stab me in the front,” which is what I often insist, though it may not necessarily feel good when they do so!

]]>
By: Sharon http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14132 Tue, 03 Jun 2014 19:00:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14132 Hi Christine,
I really like your comment. I also felt that something was off about this advice. For me it begins with the title. To do and believe is one thing, but they go wrong if what do not do the first thing, which is to rest in God’s love revealed in the gospel and trust him with our honest thoughts and feelings.

]]>
By: cth http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14131 Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:28:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14131 Btw, I know my login is cth. This is Agi a.k.a. Christine, Ben’s daughter.

]]>
By: cth http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14130 Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:25:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14130 Yeah, something strikes me as off about this advice, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. I have felt similar to this girl many times, and here’s what I remember helped me.

I remember learning that we go through different phases of life. Sometimes we feel really full and close to God, and other times we feel dry and distant. I describe myself as “feeler.” I like to feel close to the people in my life, and to God, and if I don’t, I worry that something is wrong. But I will not always feel a certain way, and knowing that’s okay, that that doesn’t change the fact that the Holy Spirit lives in my heart, that offers some assurance.

And I agree with BK that the “right answer” to this question will have a lot more to do with what a particular person is going through at the time. There have been other times I felt far from God but that’s because I was living in disobedience. God had to weed an idol out of my heart, which He did, and it was the most horrific feeling ever, but after I came to Him broken and acknowledging my need for Him, I felt Him fill me up like never before. I experienced grace like I never have before.

But she may be feeling distant because there’s some false gospel she’s living by that’s making her feel like she’s not living up to a certain standard and therefore doesn’t deserve God. I felt far from God all my years in college when I was in UBF and I never knew why. The reason was that I was living by the law and had absolutely no idea what about the gospel, even though I could recite verses from the Bible from memory and teach more 1:1 bible studies every week than most of my peers. (I still cringe when I think about the false gospel I was teaching to SO MANY people). In that situation, I felt far from God because I really was far from God, because I didn’t know Jesus. It took someone challenging me about how I knew I was saved for me to realize that I actually didn’t. I was offended by her question, but she was right. I needed to realize that I didn’t know Jesus as the first step to letting my “righteousness” crumble and receiving God’s grace for the first time. This was a long process.

There was no 3-step formula for me. I think for most people, it’s usually much more complicated than just “feeling far from God.”

And I agree with BK, I think that the biggest stages of growth in my life occurred when people listened to me, asked me questions, and allowed me to realize what God was showing me about Himself. I know as a preacher it’s nice to present a 3-step plan, but that really too often oversimplifies things and makes people feel like “Okay I gotta do these 3 things to fix my problem,” when really that’s not likely going to be a helpful approach.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14059 Thu, 29 May 2014 16:35:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14059 BK, after I posted this, I felt virtually what you expressed, and that it was imperative driven (trust, love, believe) and thus not very helpful, at least not in what I wrote.

But in our 40 min conversation, I was primarily encouraging her to know that God’s love, mercy and grace is God’s unchanging sentiment toward her, even if she sins, or even if she doesn’t read the Bible.

I did not communicate this too well in the post, except perhaps in this statement (which perhaps is the emphasis during our conversation): “To trust God we must know the truth that God loves us even when we feel distant from him, and that He forgives us even when we are sinning. Our unwavering confidence in the unconditional and unchanging love of God for us is the strongest motivator for us to stay close to Christ.”

]]>
By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14058 Thu, 29 May 2014 16:15:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14058 And perhaps most importantly, I think you need to listen for something that the person may need to do. I would guide them to face the facts of their situation (if there is indeed a situation). They may need to go talk to someone, or take action of some sort. I would point those things out.

]]>
By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14057 Thu, 29 May 2014 16:08:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14057 “How might you counsel a Christian who asks you what they should do when they feel distant and disconnected with God?”

The first thing is to listen to them. Hear their story. Ask a few questions but let them talk. Don’t give them advice. Don’t try to solve their problem or fix them. Don’t do anything to plant fear or guilt. Be a friend. Try to help them express the source of what’s bothering them, and bring that into the light.

If there comes a chance to talk, remind them about Jesus, telling them the stories of how Jesus suffered outside the gates of Jerusalem. Tell them the stories of how it is ok to doubt. Remind them of Bonhoeffer who wrote that “You are allowed to be a sinner”.

Tell them a story of how you yourself felt disconnected from God. Preach the gospel! The gospel messages are not about getting to Heaven in the future. The message is about entering God’s rest today, and discovering the kingdom of God now. Jesus did not say “I will be the way one day…” Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life”. Now is the time, today is the day.

]]>
By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14056 Thu, 29 May 2014 15:59:33 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14056 Ben,

I don’t have the energy to respond to this article. There’s just so much here that strikes me as wrong or harmful. I find this advice a highly troubling and disturbing proof-texted advice, as opposed to deep, heartfelt, helpful advice.

“This is an abridged paraphrase of my spontaneous response to her as a Christian. (If she were not a professing Christian, I would likely respond differently.) I basically encouraged her to:

Trust God, not yourself (Prov 3:5).
Love God and others (Mt 22:37-39; Mk 12:30-31).
Believe that God is good (Rom 8:28).”

]]>
By: Anon. http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/28/what-to-do-and-believe-daily/#comment-14054 Thu, 29 May 2014 14:34:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7992#comment-14054 I thought of three verses that have helped me in the midst of my uncertainty and despair:

Hebrews 10:22, “let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience…”

Psalm 145:18, “The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.”

James 4:8, “Come near to God and he will come near to you…”

I hope these don’t sound too works-oriented, but there are promises that when we come to God humbly he will draw near to us. Of course, God is always near and always ready to welcome his beloved children so we can experience his grace, mercy and love.

]]>