I think a communication such as your very well written comment is very healthy and welcomed, and definitely an excellent starting point for a genuine heart to heart dialogue.

As Joe implied, I hope that you will continue to engage us, challenge us, rebuke us, call us out, correct us, and help us to improve as a good friend who speaks the truth in love (Eph 4:15). We are after all ubFRIENDS.

But if you are a troll or a “one shot and done” deal, then to be honest I will be quite disappointed.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork and speaking your mind. I really do mean that, in all sincerity.

* I believe you speak for many ubf members who wish we would just go away and move on.

* And, in a less direct way, you echo the sentiments of some people who have left ubf who think it might be more healthy for us personally to exit the blogosphere and quietly focus on personal healing.

I will take you at your word that you really do want us to answer that question.

My short answer to you is:

What I am doing, I know I am doing imperfectly, and I will try to be open to correction from you and from anyone else. But in some fashion I must continue to speak up and interact with former and current ubf members, both in private and on social media, because the gospel compels me to do it.

To carefully explain what I mean by that would take a while, more than I can fit into a comment thread. It would take (I am guessing) a series of three articles. And those articles wouldn’t be full of what you call OCD chitchat; they would be getting to the very heart of the gospel, which is what ubf claims to be all about.

Although I have plenty of other things to do, I am willing to write those articles and post them on UBFriends. But if I agree to make that effort, do you agree to read them and think about them and react to them in a thoughtful way?

Or is your comment a one time, hit-and-run thing? Are you for real, or are you a troll?

P.S. In response to your comment, I have removed from this page some of the OCD chitchat that we were having yesterday just for fun. But all the substantive comments remain.

I thinks it’s time for you guys to move on with your lives. I recently came back to UBF after spending several years in other churches. I loved many of them and was the leader of intervarsity group. To be honest, despite the flaws that ubf has, I came to appreciate it more and more and doing my best to rid of it of its flaws. In my chapter I’m seeing a great change. Not because of people who mumble about the problems all day long, but because they are willing to learn and change and most importantly do something in action. I have seen amazing things in other churches and intervarsity but there are things I hate about them as well. Your chit chatting all day does no good at all seriously. I’m thankful you brought up criticism of ubf and I have learned much but I don’t think its healthy to spend years on criticising organization due to its flaws. To cite one preacher ” Man up” What the church needs today is men who are willing to move one and take action. We have heard enough of your rant. I’ve heard for last 4 years and sick of it.

Joe Schafer, you said you’re sick of ubf bible studies and messages. Well my response to you is make them better in your chapter and show the rest of us the great example. I’m a young, and I look up for people like you to bring changes. You were a pastor of church and director of a chapter, why don’t you exercises all the freedom and God given creativity. To me it seems like you have problem not just with ubf but with evangelicalism. I think also you should be bit more sensitive to your former ubf brothers and sisters who prayed for you and loved you. Imagine if your loved ones and kids just one day decided that they are sick of your flaws and focused only on that after years of being with you and etc. I chose to leave but now I’m back, because I want to try something beautirful and hope for beautirful. Whether ubf will continue or collapse, God decidesit. I will continue to serve him in either case. So move one and and serve God in ways you thinks it’s appropriate instead of chitchat ting all day on ubfriends.

Brian and Chris to me you’re just a bitter people who are in danger of developing some OCD issues with ubf. I enjoyed this website before, but now I’m sick of it due to you and Chris. Seriously stop wasting your life and serve God. I’m seeing flaws in ubf, but I’m equally touched by many members openness to admit mistakes and change. So stop your obsessive rant and just move on.. I once cut of relationship with mentor because I was bitter, and I used that energy to serve my best in other church, and it was really a blessing and true way to heal. You need to heal man and healing wil only come from Christ and being committed to his will. I have friends from other churches and groups, like cru, intervarsity, and etc, and guess what, many of their leaders have gone throu so many horrible things that it breaks my heart. But many of them choose to move and receive healing in the process from God. Your criticisms was helpful, but now I getting sick of it seriously.

Ben, I came to respect you a lot. but I think it would be better if your could show the rest of ubf body what church should be like more with your church. I think, you began a great initiative, but in my opinion more people would be persuaded by the beautirful changes and discipleship that occurs at Westloop. I sincerely hope it will occur soonI hope I can visit your church one day. Thanks four your courage.
But, I don’t think ubf friends is healthy anymore. Because it really creates hatred in my heart for ubf and it’s people, although I should not. And this is not building up the body of Christ. I used to enjoy ubfriends including its criticisms of ubf, but it has become ubf hate website, although your tone is quite balanced. This is not the best way to bring reforms.

One word: stop this repetitive OCD chitchats and show us the young generation some good real examples in action, not merely in blogs.

If they were honest, they would admit that so many of them are burned out. Five years ago, the American staff began to openly say so. Leaders responded, “I’m so sorry” and kept marching on. One of the burned out people even said (nearly an exact quote, as best I remember): “I know that this is *my* problem, something that *I* have to figure out myself through prayer and Bible study” and the leaders nodded in approval. So even as our eyes were being opened to see that we were just sucking on pebbles, the recommended solution was for each person to go home and suck on more and more pebbles in the privacy of their rooms, despite the obvious facts that we had no time or strength or desire to do so.

As I re-read Ryan’s story, I was struck by the words “To the End of Man” and “We are Man.” I was reminded of the teaching that man equals mission. They don’t just say that man *has* a mission. They say that man *equals* mission. Nothing more, nothing less. We were put on the earth to be like machines, marching along on through the deserts of our mission fields until we die and get a glorious heavenly crown or until we reach the glorious fantasyland of KOPAHN (which no one could ever explain) David L was absolutely right to point out how strange that KOPAHN idea is, bearing no relationship to basic New Testament eschatology. I would even say that its more like Islam than apostolic Christianity.

And how can anyone deny that when someone starts dreaming of More, imagining something beyond the dry pebbles that ubf gives, those people are slapped down as the leaders say, “There is no More. We have Enough.”

I’m just thinking that many longstanding UBFers who read and care to comprehend this will firmly and strongly believe that they are like the latter who are drinking from streams of living water. Conversely those who won’t listen to them or highly honor them as indisputable top leaders are like those stubborn hardened bitter immature worldly disloyal unfaithful unrepentant people with a stone in their mouth that will only kill them.

“…even the most hardened pilgrims are not beyond redemption. and i want to stand in solidarity with them because they represent the plight of humanity – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/02/24/and-as-i-slept-i-dreamed-a-dream/?trashed=1&ids=16688#sthash.QqxnLJe2.dpuf

Yes. I’m not try trying to classify individuals as pilgrims or seekers. I see this as a Lewis-esque parable about movements and ideologies. I believe that was the author’s intent.

“No good deed goes unpunished.”