Comments on: Individualism, Collectivism, and UBF http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-17372 Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:47:26 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-17372 “it’s protected under freedom of speech”

Also, it can be an entertaining event for the whole family.

]]> By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-17369 Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:54:13 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-17369 RIGHTOH!

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-17368 Sun, 05 Apr 2015 23:36:44 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-17368 At dinner the other night I blew a missionary’s mind when I mentioned that flag burning cannot be made illegal because it’s protected under freedom of speech (and is held up by the US supreme court). He said it is illegal to speak badly about the south Korean president.

]]> By: David http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-224 Sat, 07 Aug 2010 08:46:48 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-224 But couldn’t we think here what is good in collectivism and what is good in individualism. Or what is dangerous or weakness of one and other? Let me express few thoughts.In UBF we were used to do everything together and tried to live the really common life and maintain really common spirit – one thoughts, one hope, one vision so on. We tried to spend together as much time as it possible and even a bit more. We were able to avoid many unnecessary controversies. At the end we were able to establish close community and to develop some activities and reach some goals. In my understanding – this is our collectivism or the result of our collectivism. But isn’t it what church should be? And wasn’t it the Jesus’ method of disciple making? (Mk. 3:14)
On the other hand, the people are different, they have different life issues and stories. In this system the person which is different, or should act different couldn’t feel comfortable. Any time when I had have to do something else while church had some activity I felt uncomfortable. And inspite of that our ministry is the different ages, each of us should be engaged in student mission. There is no legal alternative for the persons who don’t want be engaged in it.
Other issue is the spiritual growth. As M. Maria mentioned above – they felt always to be considered as younger missionaries. And we also are considered as disciples. Disciple always should listen and learn. Is it right? What have I learned for decades being in UBF while I still could not have my opinion, or express it freely? In such atmosphere it is not easy to have the widest sight of view and have a field for creative ideas.
Everything above – are just common thoughts, while I do not address them to anyone from UBF in particular.

]]> By: Maria Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-223 Sat, 07 Aug 2010 05:23:17 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-223 But the problem in UBF is that there is no open communication. When we tried to talk in a group, we were considered young missionaries who should learn from the elder missionaries who have been in the field longer than we have. Meaning shut up and put up. We have been in UBF for almost 30 years and in the mission field for 7 years but we are always considered as young missionaries. Because of the hierarchy system it is hard to talk as friends and lay out our expectations amongst each other. I love our Korean missionaries. But unless UBF let go of this hierarchy system we can never see eye to eye. As Jim P. said our missions are becoming more and more multicultural. This means we need a more open communication to become a vibrant and growing body of Christ.

]]> By: Ben http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-222 Sat, 07 Aug 2010 04:19:25 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-222 Joe, I think you’re right. Expectations are a key issue. If assumed high expectations are placed on someone who doesn’t want them, that person may just end up leaving without saying good bye. The expectations, as you say, need to be recognized, articulated and understood. Even then, everyone may not agree, but at least there won’t be deceit in the assumption of expectations.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-221 Sat, 07 Aug 2010 02:21:12 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-221 Yup. But the main point of Jim Plueddemann’s talk was more subtle. In the present day, missionaries are flowing from everywhere to everywhere, and multicultural mission teams and mission fields are becoming common. The important thing is for us to recognize the different expectations placed on leadership by different cultures, to articulate expectations and agree upon them after prayerful dialogue.

]]> By: Ben http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-220 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:51:18 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-220 OK, no culture is better than another, and the gospel transcends culture, but surely using the predominant native cultural norms to contextualize the gospel and minister to the people we’re trying to reach is more effective than using a foreign or non-native culture, n’est-ce pas?

]]> By: Maria Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-219 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:44:14 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-219 Joe, thank you for this insightful article. As an American Missionary in UBF it has not been easy to co-work. We face so many culture differences, like Ukrainian culture, American culture and Korean culture and my girls are in a Turkish culture. Thank God that the gospel is beyond cultures. I was moved by our Bible Study on Mark 2 during the recent Midwest Conference about the four friends who brought their paralyzed friend to Jesus. Because they were four of them it was easier to carry their friend and when they faced difficulties they were able to overcome it and complete their task of helping their friend. The four had a mutual concern and love for their friend so they were able to co-work. If they criticized one another for their differences, I think they would have left their friend a long way off already. For the sake of the gospel and for the love of God’s flock we can overcome our cultural differences. Because of the cultural differences, John and I face in the mission field, we could struggle more to come to Jesus. There was one time we were ready to call it quits but other friends in Jesus really helped us. We felt we were the ones being carried to Jesus. Though conflicts are hard and difficult and painful, it helps us to come to the cross of Jesus.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/06/individualism-collectivism-and-ubf/#comment-218 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:56:18 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=111#comment-218 Thanks, Joe, for the excellent contrast of collectivism, exemplified by Korean culture, and individualism, exemplified by American (and Western) culture, with the important statement that neither culture is better or worse, since culture is neutral.

Perhaps, in many of Paul’s 13 epistles, he alluded to the Jews inclining toward collectivism (and legalism), while the Gentiles tending toward individualism (and liberalism). The senior collectivist Jews tried to enforce community through conformity by circumcision and the Law, while the junior individualistic Gentiles likely insisted on their freedom of expression in community. Fortunately, they had Paul as their advocate.

As you aptly said, surely the wise (and humorous) God brought the 2 humanly incompatible cultures of Koreans and Americans to love each others’ (inwardly infuriating and annoyingly idioyyncratic) differences in UBF USA! :-)

Practically, what can we do? I think that all differences need to be addressed prayerfully and gradually, rather than buried. There needs to be a “death and resurrection” or sorts, not a vague hope of things just gradually improving (which in reality I don’t believe happens). Like a good marriage, both spouses need to be able to speak what’s truly on their heart and mind in a gentle, wise, understanding, and respectful way so as to be able to articulate what’s truly bothering us. Otherwise, that marriage will go south. Likewise, in a church, we should pray for inceasing openness and trasparency, as exemplified by the Trinity, who as I’d like to say are “BFF.” And so can we, despite our differences in our culture, only by the grace of God.

Thanks again for a great and timely post!

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