Comments on: Word, Spirit, Gospel and Mission (Part 8) http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: John Y http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1402 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 22:47:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1402 By the way, Dr. Ben,   I love the quotes you had above. Here is another quote:
 
“Nothing that we despise in the other man is entirely absent from ourselves. We must learn to regard people less in the light of what they do or omit to do, and more in the light of what they suffer.” – Dietrich Bonhoeffer
 
It is this quote and Bonhoeffer’s own life example that has been the guiding philosophy toward the way I try to view individuals in which I have had my own conflicts, personal wounds, and perceived and actual wrongs done to me. I see the spirit of Bonhoeffer’s quote abounding on this website and specifically with this discussion thread, so in many ways, I remain hopeful.
 
 
 

]]>
By: Oscar http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1401 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:24:48 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1401 Great conversation. I wonder if, down the line, there will be an article that talks about implemeting change where/if necessary.

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1400 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:44:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1400 Hi JohnY, it is for that exact reason that I have tried to speak in generalities instead of calling out specific individuals by name. I could do that easily, and I could recount spiritual  abuses toward me and others detail by detail, but I have purposely  not done  that for the sake of the perpetrators. Instead, my focus has been to privately discuss individual matters with the offenders themselves, and publically discuss systemic issues. I do not hold any hatred toward any member of UBF at all whatsoever. The Apostle Paul said in Romans 12  that we should “Hate what is evil and cling to what is good.” I try cling to the good things/practices about the UBF ministry and I hate any evil practices that occur or have occured there. Paul also said in Ephesians 5:11, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” That is one of the things I am trying to do! If you like, I would be happy to discuss over email  with you in detail (with names changed of course) the practices and occurances that I am talking about. My email address is stonensling1(at)yahoo(dot)com.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1399 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:33:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1399 Joe, Darren, If I may add to the “3 steps of salvation,” John Murray, in his book, “Redemption, Accomplished and Applied,” recommended to me by David L and Ben W, states that there are 8 steps in the “order of redemption”: http://westloop-church.blogspot.com/2010/11/of-redemption.html

1) Calling
2) Regeneration
3) Repentance and Faith
4) Justification
5) Adoption
6) Sanctification
7) Perseverance
8) Glorification

Sorry for adding to the confusion!!

John, I agree that it’s so easy to “promote resentment” and/or stonewalling one side, by listening primarily to the other side. Maybe my weakness is to “side with” the weaker, that is, the “sheep,” while I regard that the stronger, the leader, or “the shepherd” should be more mature and humble and willing to acknowledge their own shortcomings, instead of “blaming the sheep,” or as David L puts it, “talk behind their back,” which is essentially gossip, and promoting resentment and stonewalling.

Dr. James, For sure we Christians are “greater sinners” than non-Christians. But if our communication is to label others as “godless,” “proud,” “selfish,” “spoilt,” “trouble-maker,” “mental patient,” “racist,” etc, (all of which I have personally heard from leaders in reference to others) without stating exactly how we Christian leaders are “greater sinners,” it still comes across as though we Christians or leaders are far better than non-Christians or better than those who left UBF.

So, I think that until we state clearly how we are “greater sinners,” that’s only a theory but not a reality, I think.

]]>
By: Darren Gruett http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1398 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:02:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1398 Well said, Joe. I wonder how many Christians in general understand salvation as being justification, sanctification, and glorification? That is such an important truth to embrace. Thanks for your honest and timely comments.

]]>
By: John Y http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1397 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:36:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1397 Understood. I’m with you, Dr. Ben. What makes me uncomfortable is the sharing of personal details on this website that occur between David L and the potential “offending party”. I mean, it helps me better understand David L’s situation (assuming the facts are really that clear) and it helps me empathize with him better, but in the process it also unintentionally distorts my perception of the other side. Perhaps I should be more upset along with everyone else in solidarity with David L, but until I have the opportunity to hear the other side, I’d have to say that what makes me uncomfortable is not the topic itself but the manner in which we are going about may be cathartic on one side, but deepen the resentment/stone-walling on the other. That would not be helpful in the long-run. But Dr. Ben, please understand I’m with you on this.
 
 

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1396 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 15:37:31 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1396 Also, if there is anything that I said in my post  which was untruthful, please show me what it is. I want to be transparent and open to the truth. I have purposely never mentioned the name of my  Bible teacher  on here or anyone’s name for that matter except to give some word of encouragement. And while I definitely want to encourage people, I also want to protect some  and admonish others as Christians are called to do. When I said that leaders are talking behind your back, it is because I have heard them! And when I compare aspects of  UBF to an Orwellian book, I truly believe that in some ways it is loosely like that!!!

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1395 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 14:00:48 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1395 To me, the difference between this website and RSQUBF is that we who post on here still care about UBF and people serving there. If I sounded too  bold in my last statement, I only regret that I was not even bolder before I left the ministry. I truly saw things, many many things which were not only wrong but very evil taking place and did nothing about it but leave. Thats why I applauded your committment to stay and deal with the wrongs there and try to make them right! I am usually pretty straight forward in my interactions, so I know that sometimes I come across like a bull in a china shop, but my intention is to bring the darkness into the light (including my own). A quick story: I recently waited FAR too long in a personal interaction with a friend to tell him that he was sinning against me…actually I didnt want to tell him at all because he is my friend and I didnt want to hurt his feelings  (I waited 5 years to bring it up) but when I mentioned it he said to me, ‘Man, why didnt you tell me this earlier? I could have appologized to you way back then and stopped doing this thing!” I saw that it was wrong for me to keep offenses to myself and just bury them…(of course I know that private offenses are private affairs, but many times the offenses and sins  at UBF were not private one or two or three time events but SYSTEMIC FAILURES WITHIN THE ENTIRE CHURCH!) In terms of my personal feelings toward my “shepherd,” I have nothing but sadness and love for him. Dr. Ben is right, I have tried on numerous occasions to reach out and have been rebuffed. Perhaps someday things can change, I hope for that. I am not writing on here to gain some catharsis. Rather, I believe that if things in the upper eschalons of UBF do not change I sincerely  believe that UBF will die as a ministry or there will be  some huge scism  and I dont want that to happen. Martin Luther said, “I may be rude in speech but I am not rude in understanding.” If that be the case with me than I apologize for the first but not for the second.

]]>
By: Admin http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1394 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:50:24 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1394 I understand that some people might take offense at David L’s comment, but I see no reason to edit, censor or delete it. David L is a valued member of this online community — a friend. He expressed his opinion, and other friends have responded in a healthy way. That’s what friends do. They hold one another accountable.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1393 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:31:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1393 Hi Joshua, John,
 
Perhaps it is indeed simply catharthic for David L to share his wounding from UBF. But I do personally know that he tried to personally reach out to and reconcile with his Bible teacher and remain friends after he had decided to leave UBF for good to join another church. But his Bible teacher basically told him that they can no longer be friends, UNLESS he comes back to UBF. I hope I had not mis-represented David L by sharing his experience.
 
Forgiveness and reconciliation is perhaps the “toughest job” for Christians. Here are some quotes:
 
* “There is no deeper pathos in the spiritual life of man than the cruelty of righteous people.” Reinhold Niebuhr, An Interpretation of Christian Ethics
* “Forgiving love is a possibility only for those who know that they are not good, who feel themselves in need of divine mercy…and know that the differences between the good man and the bad man are insignificant in (God’s) sight.” Niebuhr
* “Forgiveness places us on a boundary between enmity and friendship, between exclusion and embrace. It tears down the wall of hostility that wrongdoing erects, but it doesn’t take us into the territory of friendship. Often, that’s all we can muster the strength to do, and all that offenders will allow us.” Miroslav Volf, Free of Charge: Giving and Forgiving in a Culture Stripped of Grace
 
I think that wounds in UBF as expressed by David L is hard to lead to “full reconciliation,” not just because the wounded one is not willing to be reconciled. It might be much harder more so because the one who did the wounding and offending really doesn’t think he said or did anything wrong, and has no to little fault in the wounding of others, and that it is basically “the sheep’s fault.” (When I hear the recent murmurings about India UBF, there is a subtle air of blaming the indigenous Indians for leaving. I think this is really, really sad, because I have not heard the leadership take personal responsibility for this massive shameful failure.)
 
Of course, the offended “sheep” must still forgive his offending “shepherd,” even if the offending party thinks they didn’t do anything wrong or simply won’t admit to it. Therefore, even the one offended cannot ABCD (accuse, blame, criticize, demean) the offending party without sinning against God and grieving God.
 
Sorry, if I am raising an uncomfortable topic, which might be hard to transparently and openly address publicly and face to face. But I hope that we can be mature and humble enough to eventually address such “painful topics” publicly and face to face one day (and not just in cyberspace), even this side of eternity. Or maybe, this is just my own pipe dream.

]]>
By: James Kim http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1392 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:23:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1392 Hi Dr Ben. I do not disagree with you. Someone said we are much worse sinners than we think including myself. Only by the grace of God, our sins are forgiven. Through redemption, also restoration begins.

]]>
By: david bychkov http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1391 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:11:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1391 One person said that the problem of today’s Christians that they saw the poority of everyone except themselves. I’m strongly agree with this statement. So I like what you have said here, Dr. Ben. Though I like Dr. James Kim statement about “godless culture around us” b/c sure it is true, and we don’t have to forget that we are in the world, but not from the world, and sure we are the light and salt for it.

]]>
By: david bychkov http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1390 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:05:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1390 Hey David. Thanks for all your comments and great contribute in our community. It is very crucial for us, but for you it seems to be like something volunteer work. Though we greatly appreciate it.
As for this last comment – thank you as well for encouraging. However I think that for this time last thing which we need is considering us as heroes. we never want to think in terms white and black, in or out, cause I think it is the way to deeping misunderstanding and troubles instead of healing. what we really need is God’s mercy to be humble, loving and muture.

]]>
By: Joshua Yoon http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1389 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 07:35:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1389 Thanks Joe again for putting this long series of W.S.G.M. These articles were timely posted as our chapter studied Acts. We just finished this book today by having symposium. This was the first time God widely opened my eyes to see the “beautiful and mighty acts of the Holy Spirit.” Your comments, questions and quotations and other people’s comments really helped me to pay less attention to what apostles did and what we must do but much more to what and how the Holy Spirit worked. Following the work of the Spirit was such a thrilling adventure. I found Acts very relavent to our ministry. God gave me better understanding of the dynamics and relationships among these four components, Word, Spirit, Gospel and Mission. I understandn why Joe added Mission to the title. (I put a question about this in my response to the first part.) Acts of the Holy Spirit has been continuing for last 2,000 years and will continue until the day of Christ, expepecially the work of evangelism and reevengenlism (transformation).

]]>
By: Joshua Yoon http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1388 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 07:08:02 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1388 David L, thanks for your honest comments. I believe what you experienced and felt is real. I was glad to hear the voice of someone outside UBF like you. I appreciate many of your insightful comments on this online forum. I sense certain words and expressions you used are indicators of your need of reconcilation and healing. I am not sure what exactly happened between you and some people in UBF. Based on my experience, I would like to encourage you to pray for God’s wisdom and courage to reopen a dialogue with them. If your mentor was a Korean missionary, I believe cultural barriers and different expectations might have played big roles in creating conflicts and tension. Thank God that you are not just keeping the feelings buried inside you but revealing them at least on this space. I believe this is the beginning of reconciliation and healing. I hope you will take further steps for these by talking to people with whom you had struggles as Jesus urged us to (Mk 11:25, Mt 5:24) I also want you to know that UBF is not the same as when you were in. Talking freely in UBFriends is one evidence.

]]>
By: John Y http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1387 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 05:25:41 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1387 David L, I know you meant well, and I’ve personally appreciated your wide-ranging contributions to this online forum. However, I think some folks would take offense at your above comment.
 
Admin may disagree with me on the following point, but I hope eventually this online forum serves as a necessary but hopefully temporary way to voice honest concerns and discussions that ultimately should occur between individuals face-to-face. I personally hope this online forum would eventually progress to the point where it might even catalyze people to personally meet together outside the online forum and discuss their positive and negative experiences in UBF to promote mutual understanding and reconciliation — rather than serve as some cathartic back-handed way to lash back at those who may have hurt you. I apologize if that was not the intention, but that is how that comment appeared to me.
 
I do not know what personally makes you feel you had to “escape” and “break free from stifling legalism” and “take a stand”– as if UBF is some monolithic prison with a singular mission to make each member miserable. Clearly, I can tell you were hurt by some of your experiences and I’m saddened by it, and hope that this online community would serve a good purpose in your life to promote long-term reconciliation between you and with those in UBF who really do need to hear your experiences and wounds. As it stands now, comments like the one above do not in my opinion promote that, but I may be over-reacting. I mean the comment helps me understand you, but i don’t think it promotes reconciliation. But with that said, I hope you continue to contribute your comments on ubfriends because I personally learn a lot from you.

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1386 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 04:41:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1386 Again, I really have to salute the boldness of you guys on here who are still in UBF! For me it is very  easy to comment and say whatever I feel because no one in UBF can touch me, I am beyond the long arm of UBF style  justice;) But for you guys, man…it takes guts and spirit to know that people, strike that, LEADERS  in the ministry are talking behind your back and plotting against you, and yet you still are taking a stand against the sinful practices of the ministry! Stay strong brothers!  

I was  at UBF for 6 years, and it was hard enough  for me to  escape, much less take a stand, but for some of you, I know that you have been there  for 15, 20, 30 years or more!  I know that UBF  is a HUGE part of your life, perhaps  for a long time it  was the CENTER of your life, and to finally break free from stifling legalism and take a stand against it from within the ministry  is truly admirable! You are like a Christian version of Winston Smith from Orwell’s 1984 but with a different ending hopefully!!! Truth always  wins in the end, and I thank God that the Truth is shining brightly through you!

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1385 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 03:54:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1385 Hi Dr. James,

I hope you don’t mind if I make a comment on your phrase “godless culture around us.” It’s basically a judgmental statement similar to saying, “selfish Americans,” or “proud Koreans,” or “snake-like Chinese,” etc. I’m sure that no one who is American, or Korean or Chinese, likes to hear such statements, regardless of whether or not they are true. Likewise, I don’t think that any Christian or non-church going person likes to be referred to as “godless.”

Also, “godless culture around us” also implies that there is no or less godlessness in the church, or that the church is far better than the “godless culture” outside of the church.

*Is this really true?

* Are Christians “less godless” than non-Christians?

* Are Christians “better” than godless non-Christians?

* Are Christians “elected” or chosen because they are less godless?

I think that we Christians will give a far greater influence to the “godless culture around us,” when we begin to address our own godlessness within the church:

* Is the church flawless, sinless?
* Is there no selfishness in the church?
* Is there no gossip, slander, playing politics in the church?
* Is there no favoritism in the church?
* Even if we avoid adultery in the church (for the most part), is there no lust or the temptation of pornography in the church?
* Is the church really less godless than the “godless culture around us”?

If we in the church begin to address our own short-comings, sins, idolatry and godlessness, I believe that we will be much less resented and “hated” by the “godless culture around us.”

Thinking of Jesus, the “godless people” like the prostitutes and the tax-collectors loved Jesus. It seems that it is only the “godly” religious leaders who hated Jesus.

I hope that you are not offended by my “picking” on your phrase “godless culture around us.”

]]>
By: James Kim http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1384 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 03:18:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1384 Hi Joe, thank you for your thoughtful article. In the Bible we see that God gave us two major commandments: Great Commission and Cultural Mandate: (Matt 28:18-20/ Gen 1:28) Both of these commandments are important to all Christians. In UBF we are much more familiar with the first commandment than the second one. One medical doctor I know is very busy at work in the hospital with heavy responsibilities as chief of one department. He cannot do much in terms of visiting campus or one to one ministry. So my prayer for him is that he may give good Christian influence to people around him at his working place. This is what Jesus meant, “to be salt and light of the world”. Christians infiltrate like salt to every strata of the society. UBF is lay ministry. As lay people it is very important to give good Christian influence at the working place wherever we may be. In this way Christians can shape the culture, rather than being influenced by godless culture around us. What matters most is to give positive impact to the society in general. Lesslie Newbigin said, “Ordinary Christians working in business, industry, politics, factory work and so on, are the Church’s front-line troops in her engagement with the world”. We can do this task when we have clear Christian worldview as you mentioned, God’s creation, Fall, Redemption and Restoration.

 
 

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1383 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 02:48:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1383 Here are a couple of quotes that may address why anyone’s Bible study may be somewhat “off”:

1) “Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people. Churches that sever the root of truth may flourish for a season, but they will wither eventually or turn into something besides a Christian church.” John Piper

2) “The authority of the Bible must operate in the way the Bible is, not in the way we would like it to be or in the way our subculture has taught us that it is.” Graeme Goldsworthy

3) “The ultimate goal of Jesus’ commandments is not that we observe (obey) them by doing good works. The ultimate goal is that God be glorified. The obedience of good works is penultimate. But what is ultimate is that in our obedient lives God be displayed as the most beautiful reality in the world. That is Jesus’ ultimate goal.” John Piper

Some have complained to me that quotes are not from the Bible. But quotes by godly Christians do illustrate truths proclaimed in the Bible.

We like to remember our founder Dr. Samuel Lee’s last word as “go back to the Bible.” But it seems like we are going back to mission, to our methods, to our tradition, to our “good works” over the last 50 years. They are not necessarily bad or wrong, but they are not ultimate. Also, there seems to be no fresh newness of life, no more revelation or awe in Bible study, since we already “know it” and it cannot be questioned. It seems to be assuming the gospel, while emphasizing works, and what we must do, sometimes quite unplesantly or ungraciously.

So, even the beautiful majestic sublime doctrine of election breeds a subtle air of pride, racial and cultural superiority, elitism, an elevated status, as though the one chosen or elected was because of their merit or goodness or purity or hard work or repentance or faith or obedience. Is there genuine and heart felt humility, gentleness, grace, meekness toward “sheep” or others who are “different”?

A lot of this is of course subjective. But the fruit of this on a fairly large scale is the exodus of India UBF after 20 years, while in other instances people leave one by one. Can we even begin to address this, or do we keep “blaming” the people who have left?

Sorry if this comes off as quite harsh. Maybe it’s because I’m still jet lagging from my recent trip. More likely it’s because I’m a sinner (Ps 51:5) who constantly needs endless grace for transformation and sanctification. Lord, have mercy.

]]>
By: Abraham Nial http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1382 Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:18:03 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1382 “People are relational beings…” “Salvation includes justification, sanctification and glorification.” “Salvation is the mission.” These are huge revelation for such a time like this, Joe, as fresh and important as knowing who Jesus is for the first time. When I ponder over them, I almost remember Jesus’ word, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.” I for sure believe that the Trinity want to get this across our heads, set it in our hearts and be lived out in our Christian walk. I thank God for the wind of the Spirit on this blog.

God did not save us because he needed workers and producers. I think for so long we have misunderstood God’s eternal plans for human beings. While God the Father seeks to raise up a family: “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters…” (1Co 6:18); He also seeks to raise up a Bride, an eternal companion for His Son: “…For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.” (Rev 19:7), to reign with Jesus in the coming kingdom. Defining human beings based on what they do or don’t is causing so much heartache and trouble everywhere. God loved me even when I was dead in my transgression and sins and because of his great love made me alive in Christ (Eph 2:4,5). Once after the initial experience of salvation, will His love increase or diminish based on my performance? No.

I think that failure to recognize “salvation is the mission” and making a distinction between the two results in neglecting some of the more important issues such as sanctification. The immediate danger is neglecting the person and role of the Holy Spirit for our Christian living and spiritual growth. Mission station strategy replaces the longing for glorification with endless struggle to be justified in the eyes of those around us. Not only UBF but most in the Body of Christ are either unaware or neglecting these realities (sorry, for the sweeping generalization). I hope and pray that God may wake us up to greater realities. Thanks again for the article and your bold and honest comments.

]]>
By: Joe http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1381 Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:42:04 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1381 Thanks for your kind words, David. But no, these observations are not mine. They are what I have been hearing from many of our members. I’m just listening, collecting and synthesizing.

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1380 Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:25:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1380 Gosh Joe, that diagnosis is one of the best I have seen on this website of the condition of UBF! You are a spiritual doctor as well as a PHD it seems!

]]>
By: Joe http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1379 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:34:05 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1379 Thank you David. When you say that “salvation is by grace alone,” I want to clarify what that means, for the benefit of other readers, so that no one misunderstands.  Salvation includes justification, sanctification and glorification. All  three of  them are  accomplished by  God’s grace. Our job  is to receive  all three  as gifts from God, not to generate them by our efforts.

I don’t think anyone in UBF would argue that we are justified by works. In our testimonies and messages, we always talk about God’s grace upon our lives, about the need to remember God’s grace, give thanks for God’s grace, and so on.

But where it gets murky is when we  get to  sanctification.  Actually, in  UBF, we don’t say much about sanctification. Rather, we tend to  frame the Christian walk  in terms of  mission. After we  introduce  people to  Christ,  the next step in our discipleship  plan is to get them started doing mission, identifying themselves as shepherds and Bible teachers, praying for mission, and so on.  That mission is what drives our prayers, our conferences, our worship, our concept of marriage, basically everything about  our self-identity.  A person’s  standing in the fellowship is very strongly related to how hard he works to  participate in the mission, defined as campus fishing, Bible teaching, etc. Those who don’t get with the program are definitely regarded as second class. They are made to feel  guilty, disobedient, lazy, faithless, and so on and continually told to shape up, work harder, pray more.  Is that consistent with the gospel? No, I don’t think so. Mission must be a response  to grace. It needs to be a work of the Holy Spirit, not driven by human effort.

There is a very strong implicit theology within UBF  that we need to generate God’s blessings through our efforts. This is undeniable. You can here it in some of our messages: “We must do this,” “we should do that.” So many imperatives. So much talk about what we must do. Not much about what God has done through Christ. Not much about what the Holy Spirit does for us.  Even the mention of grace often comes in the form of an imperative: “We must remember God’s grace” and “We must give thanks to God every day for his grace.”  

Now people who speak this way do not regard it as salvation by works, because they do not regard it as a matter of salvation at all; they think of it as mission, something  that comes after salvation. That is why, I suspect, that many readers of this blog would dismiss your comments out of hand. They would say, “We DO believe that we were saved and elected by grace.” But then they live and act as though they must earn God’s blessing and bear fruit through strict lifestyles, training, discipline and hard work. And they see no contradiction with the gospel, because they have framed it as mission, something distinct from salvation. This is not an easy thing to identify or root out. But the problem is very real. I agree with your diagnosis: We seem to have reached a tipping point where the gospel of grace is being assumed more than it is being proclaimed.

One of my aims in writing this series of articles is to try to understand what mission is really about. Mission and salvation aren’t really distinct. Salvation is the mission. God wants to save the nations, and he does it by grace alone. If salvation comes by grace not effort, then mission happens by grace not effort.

]]>
By: David L http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/03/04/word-spirit-gospel-and-mission-part-8/#comment-1378 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 20:00:35 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=2237#comment-1378 Amen, and that is the KEY Joe! From first to last, Salvation is by Grace Alone, as is Election. I was talking with a friend recently about the UBF phrase ‘By Faith!’ and how that can be so easily misused and abused by leaders. In order to manipulate their sheep, all a leader has to say is, “Well, do you want to live by faith or not?” So there have been many instances of certain shepherds saying things like: “break up with your girlfriend by faith!” or “quit your job by faith” or “its ok, you can park in that no parking zone by faith!” or “cancel your wedding by faith!” …….many times it is not faith in God that the sheep ends up exhibiting but rather faith in their shepherd who may have more interest in control than real benefit to the sheep. My point to tie this together is that, until the majority of leadership within UBF remember that they were saved and elected  only by the Grace of Jesus themselves, then spiritual abuses will continue to occur. Until the top leaders admit that really serious  sins have been committed, and real abuses have occured, there cannot be healing. Instead, I believe that UBF is headed toward a fork in the road if it is not there already: Path #1 leads to repentance and restoration and a healthy ministry. Path #2 leads  toward schism and division and ultimate failure.  Thats why I am SO THANKFUL for men like Joe and Dr. Ben and the other UBF leaders on here. Truly, God, by that same grace,  has used you to give many people hope that UBF is not beyond change, and not beyond redemption as a ministry.

]]>