Comments on: Word, Spirit, Gospel and Mission (Final part)

By: Ben Toh

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 06:45:46 +0000

Thanks, John. An interesting quote: “Traditionally, Asian cultures can be quite “closed.” We don’t share failures, weaknesses, or emotions, because it’s considered shameful to do so. We keep everything bottled inside us, and if we do tell anybody, it doesn’t go much beyond our tightest circles of family and friends.”

Since, being “Asian-influenced,” we might have a blatant or implicit tendency to often work from a position of strength and power, (rather than from a position of weakness and vulnerability), which is quite contrary to Christ on the cross dying in weakness and helplessness.

]]>

By: John Y

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 05:42:19 +0000

Just sharing a recently published article that a friend of mine from college wrote. Thought our community here would appreciate it

http://inheritancemag.com/themes/expanding-the-circle-of-fellowship/

enjoy!

]]>

By: Joe

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:17:46 +0000

Andy, what you say makes sense. Democracy and voting doesn’t necessarily yield greater control to the Holy Spirit than other modes of decisionmaking. But whatever we do, we need to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is a gift to the entire church, not just to one leader. Greater interaction with other parts of the Body of Christ outside of UBF will also help.

]]>

By: Andy Stumpf

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:58:53 +0000

Thanks for putting the final touch on this important series, Joe. I hope the ideas touched in it keep on running in our minds, hearts and ministries, even if the series has come to an end. I think there are some real challenges we’re facing as we seek God’s leading on our 50th anniversary, given the blend of missionaries, native leaders and disciples, and second gens. How can we truly work together, genuinely respecting each other, to discern what the Spirit is saying to us?
I would like to add a brief reflection on 1 Thess. 5:19-21 “Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.”
There is a really interesting balance in these verses between,
(A) Being open to the Spirit’s activity as it manifests itself in any member of the community (via prophetic message, which I think actually covers a pretty broad range of divine input), and
(B) A requirement to not just let anything fly – to have some standard in place by which things get tested, and the good is sorted out from the bad.
What are some practical principles we might seek to apply to our ministries that allow us to generate this balance? I think a big part of what we need to develop, both at the local level in individual chapters and at the more overarching levels of the ministry, a structure in which top leadership actively solicits feedback from the congregation (and/or lower-level leaders), and those other members in turn take enough responsibility to offer their feedback and to be willing to dialogue with the upper leadership. I think this structure could deal with every aspect of the ministry’s practice, leaving everything open for discussion by those who are committed to the ministry.
At the same time, it does not seem right to allow ministry practice to simply be dictated by whoever expresses an idea with no controls operating – there needs to be a method for testing and discerning the will of God, and for holding on to what is good and discarding what is not. There needs to be some body in place where the final decisions are made, whether this is an individual director, a small leadership team (deciding by vote, for instance), or a democratic process in which all committed members are able to cast a vote.
I personally am very interested in investigating models for establishing a structure like this. Does anyone know of any good examples, or have any other thoughts about this?

]]>

By: Ben Toh

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:26:30 +0000

The Bible reference is John 5:39-40.

]]>

By: Ben Toh

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:16:45 +0000

Hi Dr. James. Thanks for being the only elder who comments fairly regularly on this site. It is always such a welcome sight that you share your thoughts, your experience, your vast years of Christian living, your love and commitment to Christ, and your wisdom with us.

As you rightly thank God for more than gratiously blessing UBF for the last 50 years, so do many of us. Thank God especially for calling Dr. Lee, Mother Barry, and the founding members of UBF from the early 1960s to serve God’s world mission purpose.

The point you raised from Newbigin’s Open Secret (which I have not read) is excellent: Responsibility must always follow privilege. Yet, sadly, because we are sinful, the Jews and we Christians incline toward emphasizing privilege while minimizing responsibility, or ignoring it altogether. Woe to us for doing so, for which we Christians constantly need Jesus’ mercy and grace, along with his discipline and judgment.

I thus fully agree with you regarding the sin of complacency, and of our ever constant need to grow in the “healthy tension between privileges and responsibility.” However, I would like to suggest that as much as complacency is a sin, but so is self-righteousness if we over-emphasize our need for being responsible. Our sense of responsibility can then easily degenerate into a man centered and man generated human effort that obscures the marvellous grace of Jesus.

In a sense, the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus’ day were actually very responsible to ensure the keeping of the law. But although they studied and “knew” the Bible more than anyone else, they completely missed the point (John 5:39). Likewise, I think that in our zeal to be responsible to keep our “UBF spiritual legacy,” we might be in danger of also missing the point if we primarily emphasize “UBF principles and practices” to the next UBF generation, as Joe pointed out.

]]>

By: James Kim

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:38:55 +0000

By: Joe

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:26:02 +0000

We shall see.

]]>

By: GerardoR

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:51:36 +0000

Out of curiosity, how do long time members feel UBF higher ups would react if someone like Joe were to bring up this topic at the upcoming conference? Would it be seen as a sign of courage and invitation for self examination? A sign of individualistic westerners trying to impose their views on a long held, tried and true formula? Maybe something in between?

]]>

By: Yongha Lee

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:20:45 +0000

Joe, I thank you very much for taking time and efforts durinig your busy schedules. I think this online venue is certainly limited but many of UBFiends would benefit from your insightful and spiritual articles as we walk before God. I’m thinking, wouldn’t it be great if you speak up during the missionary conference, if you have a chance, to be held right after the 50th anniversary world mission report in Korea. I don’t know the missionary conference programs, but if they repeat the same old stuffs, it would be a shame. As a lowly lay member of UBF for more than 10 years, it is my sole assessment (I respect others who may disagree with me) that we, as a church, seem to have neglected examination of ourselves and corrective repentance during the past years. Maybe we never knew about such things or we were just too busy doing the work of God. People are different so I can’t speak for others, but at least, I am learning it personally in a hard way, and I am very thankful to God for that. May the help of the Holy Spirit be on its way to each of us before it’s too late. God bless you and all UBFriends.

]]>

By: yaruingam

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:41:32 +0000

Hi Joe, you are really a wonderful writer. I really admire the way to try to correct all the errors we, the UBF have committed. In fact, every one knows it but not easy to point out in concret manner as you do it in this article. This is truly great and admirable. I hope whoever read this articles are being blessed.
You have pointed out the exact reason why many hopeful ubf brothers left the ministry in the centre where I was associating. One of the primary reasons they gave for their leaving was, ‘ there is no Holy Spirit’ in ubf ministry. This is true because we didnot allow God to work in an individuals’ life in very personal manner; minisionaries thought that unless, native brothers and coworkers confirm to the standard and activities of the missinories or UBF, we are committing sin and thus require repentance. Thus, most of our testimony sharing was repentance of not obeying the rule and regulation of the orgnization. To give a smal example, not putting neck tie itself used to be a great problem (sin). Shepherd are being rebuked and demanded for repentance. I hope many missinoaries who read this valuable article will be greatly benefiting. Keep writing ….

]]>

By: Timothy Ha

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:43:50 +0000

Dear Joe,
Congratulation on the completion of the series.
Could you please combine all parts into one PDF for convenient reading?
Perhaps A6 + A4 formats, since somebody like me could use an eBook reader.
Thanks!

]]>

By: Joshua Yoon

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:52:51 +0000

Thanks Joe for putting this long but thought provoking, relevent series of articles. Personally, I was very blessed by all the articles and comments. I was also challenged to think deeply of why I am doing what I am doing. Now I understand better why the title of this series is Word, Spirit, Gospel, Mission. One thing that stood out among many learnings is the importance of reading and studying the Bible, doing the ministry in a constant touch with the living God the Father, the person Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

]]>

By: Joshua Yoon

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:37:41 +0000

Apostle Paul’s only aim was to finish the race and complete the task of testifying to the good news (gospel) of God’s grace. For this task, he considered his life worth nothing to him. (Acts 20:24) If our task focuses on something else, even something good like certain ministrial legacies and principles, there is a danger of putting the ministry ahead of Christ.

]]>

By: Ben Toh

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:02:48 +0000

Martyn Lloyd Jones said in a sermon that if everyone in the church is the same, then it is not a church but a religious gathering. His point is that people are different, and the Holy Spirit works in people differently. So, if everyone is more or less the same, it is not really the work of God, but the work of man’s effort for religious conformity and acceptibility with one another.

I have the same concern and apprehension as Joe, if we are indeed trying to pass on our “spiritual heritage” and “UBF principles” to the next generation. This, I think, would be how our first generation of UBF members lived out their Christian life.

God does whatever pleases HIMSELF (Ps 115:3; 135:6). The wind blows wherever it pleases (John 3:8). Man can never be the determiner of what is passed on to the next generation.

We, as Christians, are primarily called to realize and receive his indescribable gift (2 Cor 9:15), which is the gospel of God’s grace (Acts 20:24), and then to share this very gospel to the world, including the next generation.

I do not believe that we Christians are called to share our methodologies, principles, or any church or denominational legacy or heritage. What do you think?

]]>

By: GerardoR

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:11:23 +0000

This is wonderful Joe. Very honest of you to be doing this kind of reflection. We are often trapped in our own bubbles and think that our spin on Christianity is how everyone else worships. I feel this strongly when I talk with friends who don’t even know where the bible came from or the history of the Church beyond acts. It almost seems like there is a strong distrust in anything that is non biblical and hence, a strong disinterest in Church history and or reading the Church Fathers.

Indeed, holding a very denomination centric view can lead to some individuals to practically value their own denominations stance (and the cultural framework that shaped that stance) above what the bible (e.g., ban on music, drinking, smoking etc..) or Holy Spirit. And what kills me is that it is always the Holy Spirit that apparently justifies this. Should we X yes or no? One guy says the Holy Spirit says yes, the other one says the Holy Spirit says no. This is strange as I do not know any denominations that claim to hold infallible interpreters of the Bible. So while there are no explicit infallible interpreters, you have people who practically act as if they infallible on an implicit level which leads to self righteousnesses.

I think you put it well once before when you said what we need is humility. It shows a lack of humility to be able to look at a fellow Christian and with all the confidence that the world can offer, say to him, “You are not Christian” or, “You are going to Hell”, or “You are not saved unless you attend my particular denomination”.

One of my favorite stories related to this is in regards to a fiery priest in Baltimore during the 60s. He was preaching that protestants are not Christians and that they are going to hell and that there is no Salvation unless you are Catholic. The Church responded to this matter not simply by reprimanding the priest but also by releasing a papal encyclical titled Lumen Gentium. =)

]]>

By: Oscar

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:02:01 +0000