Though king David suffered much from the consequences of his sin for many years, he continually honored God and trusted God. Thus, he is a man after God’s own heart.
]]>Great question. Hard to answer. Sin is man’s fundamental and primary problem, not our depression, lust, loneliness, selfishness, fear, worry, being insulted, treated unjustly, self-righteousness, blaming others, condemning others, manipulating others, racism, pride, superiority, inferiority, and as David did, cover up his sins, so that others won’t know about it, etc, These are ALL just manifestations of our sin.
I think that our sin always makes us feel that our sin is not that bad or serious. It blinds us. It cuts/breaks our relationship with God and others. We minimize our sin. If we tell a white lie, most people don’t think too much about it. Most Christians think that lust, pornography and masturbation is “not as bad” as actually having sex with a real person. “Christians” even justify their immoral life which they do not expose or confess in church with brokenness and repentance.
But sin will always work itself out in our life, one way or another, as it did in David’s life. No one can cheat God. Gal 6:5 says, “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” If you don’t practice, you won’t perform well. If you don’t study, you won’t get a good score. If you sin, it will show up in your life one way or another, as it did in David’s life, even though he was still loved and forgiven by God.
Don’t know if this makes it any clearer…
]]>Also, you ask really, tough questions, which is good. I think that you can’t put God in a box, for God does not fit into our nice and neat categories. God does whatever He pleases (Ps 115:3; Ps 135:6). His Spirit blows wherever He pleases (Jn 3:8).
God has only ONE desire for us, that we are conformed to the image of his Son (Rom 8:29). God wishes that we become more and more like Jesus, His Son, for this glorifies God, and it also is for our utmost good and joy.
So, I often ask, “Do you want God to do it the easy way, or the hard way?” I am sorry to confess that I often choose the hard way!!
]]>So when you say disciplines me, are you saying that:
1)God disciplines you in response to a specific sin as well as more general predisposition to sin so as to sanctify you more perfectly?
2) Or are you saying, sin will find you but if you accept Jesus Christ it wont find you. That doesnt mean he wont continually dicipline you throughout your life to mold you in a better Son in general. So his dicipline is more general in response to a predisposition to sin not specifically in response to a specific sin?
Your use of David’s example with Bathsheba suggests to me that you are referring to #1. Is this the case?
]]>I did not think of purgatory while writing this. I don’t think I’ve have ever framed any of my reflections with purgatory in mind ever since I became a Christian in 1980.
When Jesus said, “It is finished,” a clear meaning is that ALL punishment for the sin of believers has been fully paid. Thus, no sin, such as my ongoing besetting sins, will be punished, EVER, since no sin is punished twice. But yes, in his love for me, God disciplines me. Also, my absolute need for sanctification is ongoing, till Jesus comes again.
]]>I really do appreciate you. Sincerely.
]]>But your telling me that in this life, if we do something bad, and Jesus forgives us, we will may still receive his “unique special love which is often disciplinary Love”?
This was one of the points of the movie The Apostle. The main charecter who was a pastor although a man of faith, severely injures an innocent man. *spoiler alert* The rest of the movie he travels all around the south seeking a new life and a new faith in Jesus and he finds it. He transforms his life and the lives of those around him but he is ultimately caught by the police. The message of the movie is that no matter our spiritual redemption, we must all respond for the crimes we committed. Not sure how theologically sound the movie is but I HIGHLY reccomend it.
I will say this up front… I am not going to try to make a connection between what you are saying here and the doctrine of purgatory. I could… I really want to… I think you provide a VERY compelling case for it…. that naturally follows….but I wont. Instead, what I am interested in knowing is whether we receive his discipline*ONE EARTH* even after we are forgiven for our sins. I think this is an open question that does not have a clear answer so I am very interested in hearing your opinion. Interested.. but also a bit frightened.
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Of course, “bad things still happen to good people,” including Christians. But for those who are in Christ, the bad things (brought on by yourself or others, just or unjustly) is NOT punishment, but God’s unique special love, which is often disciplinary love (Heb 12:5-6; Prov 3:11-12).
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