Comments on: Silence and Solitude (Bonhoeffer) http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-11805 Thu, 02 Jan 2014 16:43:20 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-11805 Yeah, Brian, respecting autonomy could be regarded as a significant weakness of UBF as a whole.

This is because UBF originates its (core) values from the East, with a strong (over)emphasis on community and “absolute obedience to leaders” at all costs (even at the cost of marriage and family and personal individual preferences that are not in line with UBF), while most of the indigenous people (sheep), are more strongly influenced by individualistic tendencies.

]]> By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-11802 Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:48:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-11802 Excellent reminder Ben, thank you! Yes I remember reading that in Life Together recently. Sometimes we need to be alone; sometimes we need to be in community. And this is PRECISELY why is it so important to respecte each other and the autonomy of each person. I hate the fact that most preachers only exhort one way: either they always exhort to “be in community” (I find this to be the case most often) or they stress the importance of silence and solitude (less rare though).

The Lord instructs us to respect the seasons of life, and not exhort others to one process or method, especially we are not to exhort fellow believers to one kind of lifestyle because there is one Lord and one Shepherd.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-11801 Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:36:21 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-11801 An excellent reminder by Bonhoeffer to both beware of community, and to beware of being alone: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2014/01/02/bonhoeffer-beware-of-community-beware-of-being-alone/

What Bonhoeffer is saying is that if I spend much time with people but not with God, I should beware. The converse is also a caution: If I spend much time with God but not with people, I should also beware.

True spirituality in Christ can only be lived out by the help of the Holy Spirit to both convict us (Jn 16:8 [ESV, NASB, HCSB]) and guide us (Jn 16:13).

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3744 Fri, 25 May 2012 14:36:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3744 James, I do understand the value of spiritual discipline. My confusion lies in why you seem to be binding discipline with restoring our relationship with God. Is that what you are saying?

I find often it is letting go of discipline when my relationship with God and other people are restored.

I was hoping you could explain your thoughts further on how our discipline relates to restoration of relationship with God and with other people (family, friends, enemies, unbelievers, etc.). 

In other words, why is discipline such a key to relationship? 

]]> By: James Kim http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3743 Fri, 25 May 2012 14:06:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3743 Hi Brian, silence and solitude prayer contemplation cannot be done naturally. It requires spiritual discipline and decision to come to God and listen to Him regularly like Jesus did in Mark 1:35. Probably you know this already.

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3742 Fri, 25 May 2012 12:41:02 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3742 James, would you elaborate more on this? “Through regular discipline in this kind of prayer our relationship can be restored.”

]]> By: James Kim http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3741 Fri, 25 May 2012 12:30:12 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3741 “We are slow to listen, quick to speak, and quick to become angry. The wise man comes to God without saying a word and stands in awe of Him”(Francis Chan)
Silence and solitude in prayer is mainly listening to Him and contemplating and gazing His beauty and praise Him. Through regular discipline in this kind of prayer our relationship can be restored. I need much discipline and to overcome my busy mind, because there are so much distractions, living in this Internet age. The first thing I do in the morning is to open up my e-mail and etc. rather than prayer in silence.

]]> By: Ben T http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3740 Thu, 24 May 2012 14:40:27 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3740 Thanks, Brian. When your heart and soul is a monastery and a monk, then your community and fellowship becomes vibrant and life giving to others, both to “immoral” younger brothers, and even to “super-spiritual” older brothers, though the former may love you, and the latter may “hate” you. Personally, I need much work (and God’s mercy) on the latter.

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3739 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:19:41 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3739 Just a footnote… as I considered Jesus’ words and the phrase “lion hearted lamb”, I realized what I really long for, and what Jesus really was, is a “lamb hearted lion“. I will explain more in further blogging, but I believe such paradigm shift is helpful to understand and articulate the gospel correctly.

And Bonhoeffer’s words show me that he was clearly a lion, but with a lamb’s heart.  

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3738 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:11:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3738 Dare I say, my heart has become my monastery and my soul has become a monk!

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3737 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:10:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3737 Intriguing thoughts, Ben. Your phrase “imagined silence” interests me greatly and articulates something I haven’t been able to very well.

If I characterize my inner life in this way, comparing now to 5 years ago, I would say my inner life used to be very noisy. I was always complaining to myself or imagining all sorts of ways to “rebel”. I was always trying to find God and had to constantly look for some sense of accomplishment to appease my soul.

Now my inner life is silent, peaceful and joyful. I am filled with such a tranquility now that I am resting in grace. 

]]> By: Ben T http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3736 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:02:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3736 Silence and solitude is not an end in itself. As you alluded to, proper spiritual silence and solitude leads to bold, relevant, timely, and fearless speech (preaching, teaching, blogging), even touching on subjects that make others very uncomfortable or even angry.
 
Jesus’ silence (and timely rebuke) silenced the Pharisees. Their only response was to kill him.
 
Those who do not speak up and speak out openly (or they speak trash) expose that their moments of “imagined” silence might be cluttered with a lot of inner noise, such as their own ideas, expectations, preferences, agendas, etc.

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3735 Tue, 22 May 2012 23:28:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3735 Silence and solitude. Indeed, both are necessary for all Christians to be healthy. I think, though, what this generation so desperately needs is the calm, clear, thunderous voice of a preacher who declares the ancient gospel of Jesus. 

So many have turned the pulpit of our God into a cesspool of ambition or a platform for politics and personal gain. How I wish I could have heard Spurgeon’s sermons! What we long for, I think, is a lionhearted lamb:

http://www.spurgeon.org/index/cindex.htm  

]]> By: James Kim http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/05/18/silence-and-solitude-bonhoeffer/#comment-3734 Fri, 18 May 2012 21:19:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4633#comment-3734 Hi Ben, thank you for the wonderful article from Bonhoeffer. Peter Scazerro talked about similar ideas in his book, “Emotionally healthy spirituality”. He talked about the examples of the Benedictin monks disciplined life like this. “The monks were well disciplined with daily rules: (5 hours labor, 3 hours of study, many times a day have time of silence and solitude. They have fixed hour of prayer to be with God” Although it is not easy to follow the exact lifestyles of the monks, I believe the principle is important especially in this busy, busy life of 21st century. “Ora et labora” (pray and work) was their motto. This kind of lifestyle helped and contributed to maintain the western Christianity for the last 1500 years. More than ever before we need this kind of life style if we want to survive spiritually in this post Christian era.

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