Comments on: Pastor’s Code of Ethics http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-15311 Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:31:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-15311 And yes, anyone can change an unlocked Wikipedia entry even anonymously. The Wikipedians get their feathers ruffled when that happens, usually. I just removed the false statement.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-15310 Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:26:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-15310 OK Ben, I’m removing the link from the Wikipedia.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-15309 Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:23:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-15309 Brian, I found out from a reliable source that this is NOT true. UBF is still a member of the NAE.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-15294 Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:45:12 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-15294 This week someone from Canada made a rather shocking statement on the ubf Wikipedia page:

“However, as of 2014, UBF is no longer a member of the N.A.E.”

Does anyone know if this is true? I am planning on removing this from the article because there is no proper citation that says this.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3874 Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:57:18 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3874 Sorry! Here’s the link.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/juneweb-only/nae-clergy-ethics-code.html

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3873 Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:45:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3873 Thanks, Kl_, Chris, For sure, we in UBF should stop saying “my sheep” or “your sheep.”

Not only should we stop saying it, but the far “harder” aspect is to not feel it in one’s heart as though the shepherd has some “rights” and control over the sheep’s life and future.

Someone told me recently that some shepherds and missionaries feel strongly that their sheep should be their sheep all their life! Wow.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3871 Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:35:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3871 Thanks, Darren. I forgot about Ted Haggard. Perhaps, each church’s need for a pastor’s code of ethics would be different and with different unique particulars.

Hi Joe, your link was back to this article, rather than the CT article.

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By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3870 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 21:27:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3870 kl_ has an important point here. It is one of the fundamental misconceptions of UBF that they consider people to be “their” sheep. We should stop using such language. The wrong language, like calling your spouse your “coworker” or speaking of people as “your” sheep, makes people think in wrong ways. Please consider 1Pt 5:2 again: “Be shepherds of *God’s* flock.” Peter did not write “Be shepherds of *your* flock.”

I’m not sure if I posted this relevant link already: http://exteammembers.blogspot.de/2008/12/fallacy-of-personal-pastors.html

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By: Darren Gruett http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3869 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:27:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3869 Joe, I also wonder if it had to do with the whole Ted Haggard scandal several years ago. He was the president of the NAE at the time when that happened.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3868 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:19:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3868 Found this article on Christianity Today on why the NAE drafted a code of ethics:

http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/

It was motivated in part by rampant plagiarism and use of pornography.

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By: kl_- http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3867 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 04:15:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3867 Then again it is important to honor your mother and father so I am wrong its not all bad, just weird that it takes a full service to do.

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By: kl_- http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3866 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 03:43:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3866 Founder’s Day violates the pursuit of integrity. What about the book of Acts? If there is a Founder’s Day it should pay homage to Peter who it was said, on this rock I will build my church. Or Founder’s Day should be in honor of Christ who is the head of the Church. Founder’s Day is an abomination and mockery to God. All glory and honor to God.

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By: kl_- http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3865 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 03:05:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3865 They are not your sheep, they are God’s sheep.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3857 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:28:16 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3857 It’s quite refreshing to hear these seasoned Christian leaders confess quite movingly about their shortcomings (“ethical” miscues) in the first 10 min: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbuRSTlO-3c&feature=related

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3856 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:15:15 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3856 Thanks, Joe. Yes, when I read the CEP, I felt that the language was very broad and non-specific, and quite easy to conclude, “Yeah, I do all of that already. I’m very ethical.”

Hopefully, people will share their stories, and provide insight from both sides: the pastor and the congregation (the shepherd and the sheep).

Pastors have tended to “side with” their fellow pastor, while refusing to truly listen to allegations against them, which is unfortunate.

Members who have experienced unethical practices may tend to “pile it on” and generalize it to everyone in UBF.

With regard to sin, both leaders and members are like filthy rags (Isa 64:6) before God. No one should dismiss another person. No one should “take the high ground” (for only God in on the high ground), as though such discussion is not worthy of them.

Like God who humbled and incarnated himself unto death, we may truly welcome (love and forgive) each other, as we say to each other, “Come now, let us reason together” (Isa 1:18).

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3855 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:03:12 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3855 Point well taken, Joseph. There is surely no reason why leaders and pastors should not learn from and listen to their sheep (Jas 1:19).

Humility is so easy to impose on others (1 Pet 5:5), but hard to practice and apply to ourselves (1 Pet 5:6). The older I get, the more I know that I need to die to my pride that comes from aging, as though I have some extra clout for being older!

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3854 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:35:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3854 Ben, do you know what prompted NAE to do this? The pastors who signed seem, as far as I know, to be well known for their integrity and ethics. It’s the ones who didn’t (or wouldn’t) sign that we ought to worry about.

Having read the document, I think it would be easy for pastors who have engaged in unethical or authoritarian behavior to believe that they are adhering to it already. The language is non-specific. What people need, I think, is actual stories and examples of unethical behavior that hit close to home. Then they can begin to understand what the words of the statement actually mean.

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By: Joseph R http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/06/29/pastors-code-of-ethics/#comment-3853 Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:23:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4769#comment-3853 I mean to say much of this with respect. I think many leaders and pastors can learn from their sheep. I think they need to be more open-minded about trying to understand the sheep from his/her perspective. Listening here is the key. I am a shepherd myself and I know it is difficult to accept mistakes and listen to younger students. Yet, I realized that if God uses a donkey to speak to people, will he not also use children, those who are younger in faith?

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