Comments on: A Roadmap for Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-13922 Wed, 21 May 2014 15:25:37 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-13922 I am planning to get back to Tass’ peace plan in my 3rd book. Is there anyone out there interested in this topic? My point of my 3rd book is that reconciliation is not optional for we who claim to follow Christ. Any thoughts? What does reconciliation look like?

]]>
By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4076 Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:52:13 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4076 Darren, Tass mentions in this book something he observed about speaking at churches/seminaries in America. He was amazed that the churches were very interested in learning about reconciliation in the middle east, but weren’t able to reconcile with the church down the street! Tass goes on to mention that Muslims are perplexed by the fact that Christians find so much to disagree about *within* their own faith. A Muslim understands external conflict, but such internal division is incomprehensible. Tass also mentions that a lot of Muslims see such division as a weakness that can be exploited.

]]>
By: Darren Gruett http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4046 Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:15:37 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4046 I have not read this book, but I heard this guy speak at Moody a couple of years ago for a Middle East Crises Conference. His story is amazing.

]]>
By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4043 Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:51:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4043 Hi MJ, I haven’t read “Blood Brothers”, but it sounds like something I should add to me reading list. My current book is “What we believe and Why”. I want to spend time thinking and blogging about what I learn in this book so that I won’t be so focused on bashing UBF.

You make several important points above, including “God is above our petty squabbles” and “God has no favorites” and “Otherwise the vicious cycle just keeps going and going”. I hope we call all figure out how to end the vicious UBF/ex-UBF cycle, ending the pattern of long time leaders leaving and being pushed out of the ministry.

I am especially intrigued by your comment above: “Abraham was wrong many times and others had to suffer because of his mistakes.” This deserves some serious thought. I have never, ever heard such a thing. But it is true. I always was taught that Abraham was perfect, and the holy father of faith could not be criticized. However, after reading Tass Saada’s book, I realized how selfish and cruel Abraham could be.

So I think Christians have two difficult mandates from God: be willing to give up Isaac and show love to Ishmael. I believe Christianity was supposed to be the realization of the hope of reconciliation that Abraham and all the prophets looked forward to.

]]>
By: MJ http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4039 Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:23:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4039 Thanks for the article Brian. I enjoyed it. Have you ever read, “Blood Brothers,” by Elias Chacour? It’s one of my favorites.

It’s interesting how Jews and Arabs had been living together peacefully for years, until politics got mixed into it. It’s also interesting how obvious it is that no man-made plan for peace will solve the animosity of the Middle East, yet we continue trying to solve it through political means. But only Jesus can break the barrier between the Jew and Arab. Like you said the bone of contention is rejection, not land. The feud runs deeper than land and border lines. Thus the solution is not going to be as simple as a couple thousand square miles of land.

What I love about God is that he has no favorites. Ishmael and Isaac were brothers from the same father. And God did not simply let Ishmael and Hagar die. God is above our petty squabbles. Abraham was wrong many times and others had to suffer because of his mistakes. No one is perfect but God pays the price of our sins. God has to clean up after Abraham’s compromise. Abraham and Sarah wanted to simply get rid of Hagar and Ishmael, but God wouldn’t allow it. God doesn’t take sides. We have to do our best to be on his side.

I am very interested in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Both sides have suffered immensely and some are still suffering now, imprisoned in their own country. Neither side is faultless. But whatever cruelty happened in the past no matter how cruel, it can never justify a person to continue to act cruelly to others. Otherwise the vicious cycle just keeps going and going…

]]>
By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4038 Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:45:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4038 Yes, Ben, I’ve seen examples of this! I am glad for you and Joe S. who are such “exemplary global leaders” :) I know for a fact that there are quite a few people who simply hit the delete button or skip over my comments or articles just because my name is there. But that’s ok with me. I used to do the same thing whenever I saw Chris Z. in the email :) So I know things can change, eventually.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4036 Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:41:19 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4036 Yes, Brian. Some are also hurt, offended and disturbed by my articles and comments, but perhaps they have less to say to me (relatively speaking), because I am and have always been a “fully committed UBF member for over 30 years, whom no one can drive away.” Some people might even think that I am or at least was “fruitful” and “absolute.”

So, some may do to me what they may have done to you: use the “argumentum ad hominem” approach and caricature me as unthankful, ungrateful, immature, childish, disrespectful, unsupportive, divisive, “breaking spiritual order,” etc.

]]>
By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4033 Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:08:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4033 Good thoughts Ben. I have never liked the “us vs them” mentality. I have come to accept however that there are indeed two groups who will probably always be two groups. Just as Jews and Arabs will likely always be two groups, UBF and ex-UBF will also. For example, I will never participate in UBF activities in a regular way or any way for a long time, if ever. In the same way, UBF people will typically never stop doing UBF activities. I think both groups should accept this fact. And such a reality should not prevent the peace of Christ to exist.

My focus has been in understanding and communicating the gospel of Jesus. So I don’t advise people to leave UBF (but this is getting more and more difficult to do…) Nor do I advise them to stay in UBF.

I seek to open taboo dialogues and help people think for themselves and make their own decisions. And specifically if someone has decided to leave UBF, I will help them keep that decision because it has been such a traumatic decision for many thousands for the past 50 years.

I think Tass’ point 2 and 4 are most relevant to me and this conflict. I think UBF needs to understand that the “bone of contention” is not about Korean culture or about obedience or spiritual discipline, but about authoritarianism and elitism. And I think ex-UBF needs to understand that the pain goes both ways. I need to remember that my words have caused pain and need to avoid being self-righteous.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/20/a-roadmap-for-peace/#comment-4020 Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:57:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=4835#comment-4020 Thanks, Brian! My favorite quote: “When my heart is clean and I have a relationship with Jesus, it is easier to have a peaceful relationship with my neighbor.”

Reconciliation always involves incarnation (Jn 1:14), which involves truly being with those on the “other side.”

Personally, I want to be with those who left UBF, for they ARE my brothers and sisters in Christ, with whom I will spend eternity with.

I also want to be with those who are in UBF for the exact same reasons.

We should not pit “us” (UBF) versus “them” (ex-UBF). This never worked and never will. Why? It is unbiblical. We are all sinners with blind spots, biases and prejudices. We are all blind and hungry beggars on a journey looking for a piece of bread (Jn 6:35).

Jesus’ example is best (Jn 1:14; Phil 2:5-8).

Paul’s example is 2nd best (1 Cor 9:19-23, 27).

To promote reconciliation, Jesus had to die. To promote reconciliation, Paul had to “beat his body and make it his slave” (1 Cor 9:27). If we don’t “beat our own body” we will inevitably “beat others up,” either physically, verbally, in cyberspace, or by our body language.

]]>