Comments on: Truths Learned In and Out of UBF http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6275 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 10:22:27 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6275 “Maybe it isn’t used as much as before?”

LOL. When was the last time you went to a staff conf? Oh wait :)

KOPHN is very much used. I heard it over and over and over at every conf/staff conf up until 2011. It’s in most “work of God reports”, in most prayer topics, and in many “messages”.

]]> By: Vitaly http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6273 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:53:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6273 One word:) in ubf I learnt eternal hierarchy, out of ubf I learnt brotherhood.

]]> By: Vitaly http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6272 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:50:54 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6272 “Be thankful and loyal to ubf while you submit to your shepherd until the day you die and then one day you bow down to your shepherd in heaven.”

Well put, Brian. In ubf I was taught that there is “no equality among the believers and no communism, the one who works harder is higher and greater, and missionaries work harder and they sacrificed a lot, left their own country and came here. So, of course, in heaven the missionaries will receive more reward and will be greater and higher that the shepherds. There is capitalism in heaven!”. There is no equality in ubf even in heaven.

Out of ubf I learnt that there is the beautiful equality in Jesus among believers here on earth and of course in heaven.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6271 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:29:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6271 Likely, all of my writing today is surely the fruit of endless testimony writing every single week for 27 years, which is ~ 1,400 testimonies, averaging 4 to 6 pages!

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6270 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:26:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6270 Maybe it isn’t used as much as before. I have not used it since WL began in 2008.

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6269 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 01:51:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6269 And it’s no coincidence that one of our most-viewed, most-commented articles here is May God make America a KOPHN. Do we even know what this slogan means?

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6268 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 23:55:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6268 “Why might this be so hard to do?”

There is the complex, multi-layered answer dealing with cultural issues, theological issues, historical issues, personality issues, etc.

Or there is a rather simple explanation: KOPHN. Outsiders have no idea what this means. But every ubfer certainly does. KOPHN explains all the phenomena reported here on this website and in all the 150+ public testimonies of former members. It is the starting point of dialogue in regard to each of the 3 reform movements in the past 50+ years, as well as the current ubf-labelled “crisis” of leaders leaving.

KOPHN simply does not equate to the sound doctrine called the “priesthood of all believers”. KOPHN is a faulty explanation of a couple verses taken out of context.

KOPHN is a fantasy, disconnected from reality and disconnected from the bible canon. KOPHN goes way beyond theology or ecclesiology or correct Christian mysticism and enters the realm of magical fantasy and cult-like control. KOPHN requires much manipulation, denial and perceived reality to be sustained.

KOPHN is exposed with verses such as Hebrews 11:13-16. Christians do not look for a literal “holy nation” here on earth. Our citizenship is in Heaven. Our city is yet to come. All of Hebrews ought to be studied by ubf as a means of correcting this fatal flaw.

“13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country–a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.”

]]> By: David Bychkov http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6267 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:49:54 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6267 Thanks for the article and the question, Joshua. Your observation “Being regimented is different than being disciplined” is very interesting, and my experience will echo it.
However I will add that some UBF disciplines was really disciplines for me. For example writing. I think writing daily devotions, testimonies, sermons have helped me to be used with writing. For example, I think it is helping me now in my seminary studies, where I have read a lot and write a lot. I think the time spent in UBF with pen (well, keyboard) trying organize my thoughts during writing a testimony or a sermon now helping me to do the same with papers and many others. I’m not sure if it common for UBF people btw…
OK. I think the best what I’ve got from UBF is the bible study. Not necessarily 1:1, but atittude toward the Bible. I’m glad I’ve read the Bible many times in UBF, I’m thankful for memorizing quite a few Bible chapters, for 1:1 with shepherd, sheep, leaders group. I’m very thankful for sermons I was able to write. Especcially sermons through Exodus and through John gospel. I’m thankful for the habit to depend on text and to look there for answers. I’m thankful for times of struggle which helped me to meditate in the word of God.
OK. And yes it was limited b/c of UBF agenda, b/c of some level of skin-deepness, b/c of the lack of systematic theology, b/c of no intention to see whole bible picture, while always focusing just on the one picture.
So when I begin to drift from UBF paradigma, first thing I stopped doing daily bread as I was taught and started studing Bible whole books in order to connect passage to passage and looking for central ideas. I’ve started write sermons in the same manner. I’ve started studing systematic theology and on and on.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6266 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:10:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6266 Experiencing “overflowing blessing and profound pain” might perhaps be what many have felt in UBF. Perhaps, UBF leaders (over)emphasize the “overflowing blessing” and have ignored or even denied the “profound pain” that UBF has also caused.

As many have already stated, a simple acknowledgment of the obvious facts that have already been expressed by countless people will go a long long way. Why might this be so hard to do?

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6263 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6263 Thanks for sharing this joshua.

“‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” This principle was beautifully illustrated by God’s people in UBF.”

Indeed, that is what I experienced. Too bad such a teaching is coupled with “Be thankful and loyal to ubf while you submit to your shepherd until the day you die and then one day you bow down to your shepherd in heaven.”

I love this articulation: “I had responded well to externally-imposed regiments like devotions, testimony-writing, and Bible study, but I had not actually become disciplined in my inner person.” A big DITTO for my experience as well.

I can say I learned a handful of truths in ubf over 24 years. But I am currently learning bucketfuls of truth on a daily basis now that I’ve thrown off that which was entangling me.

Like Ben, I wrote testimonies (or messages) every week ubf style for 24 years and missed only 3 Sunday services (I was called “Satan” for the first of those…I’m such a sinner…!) But I write SO much more and SO much more meaningful now! (at least to me :)

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6262 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:07:58 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6262 Nicely put: “Especially, the quality, depth and authenticity of our spontaneous and extemporaneous sharing has been real and refreshing, which in my opinion builds relationships and intimacy among ourselves in Christ more genuinely.”

And THAT is why WL is #1 on my redeemed ubf list…which at the moment is a rather short list. Could this list become so long someday that I can’t keep track? I hope so!

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/04/12/truths-learned-in-and-out-of-ubf/#comment-6261 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:04:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=5877#comment-6261 Thanks for sharing, Joshua. As always, what you write and share is balanced, reasonable, logical, appealing and without any vitriol, which is something I will personally need God’s help to change.

For myself, after 27 years of “writing testimony” every single week without fail, I finally said, “I’m done!” I decided to never write another testimony for the rest of my days!

Two conflicting emotions arose: Guilt and Liberation. Am I sinning and grieving God if I do not write a testimony? Emotionally I felt I was. But logically and reasonably, I knew I was not. Then the explosion of liberation flooded my soul.

Interestingly, after deciding to never write another testimony for as long as I live, I have been writing more than ever. With testimonies I write only once a week. But with blogging, commenting, emails, I am probably writing far more than I ever did during those 27 years of weekly testimony writing.

Now at WL, the vast majority of us no longer write or share testimonies weekly either. But it does not mean that we no longer share. Boy, instead, we are now free to share or not share. Especially, the quality, depth and authenticity of our spontaneous and extemporaneous sharing has been real and refreshing, which in my opinion builds relationships and intimacy among ourselves in Christ more genuinely.

For our gatherings, we no longer follow a predictable formula, but perhaps follow the pattern of 1 Cor 14:26-33, where I think you can interchange the words “prophets” and “prophecy” for “sharer” and “sharing,” without butchering the exegesis.

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