Anyways I try to hypothetically have a positive outlook… although after posting that I realized I may not have been given the call or determination to actually do much more than pray compared to others that are more involved… you need to be pretty emotionally and spiritually strong to come face to face with the actual ongoings of general UBF.

and yes I will pass on your regards. Andy is doing a workshop on Holy Spirit and Joshua is doing one on the orphan spirit at the conference. (I know you aren’t going, just saying!)

Q&A with a former Moonie member

Exactly what former ubf members have mentioned:

“It was constantly reinforced that we had a purpose that was much higher than that of anyone else in the world. It was pretty appealing to be a part of something like that. But, I missed my freedom. There were times when I really missed being like the people I saw on the street every day. But, it was constantly reinforced that I was saving the world, so I trusted my beliefs and gave up my freedom.”

What do you think are the identifying traits of a cult? What differentiates cult from group?

The first one is an all or nothing world view. If easy answers to complex questions are handed to you on a silver platter and if you’re asked to believe in them unquestioningly and told not to seek an alternative, that’s a cult. If there’s a clear us and them, and we the insiders have the answers to all the questions about the world — especially if those answers are very simple. For example — Moon is the messiah. I’m a mere mortal so I shouldn’t question anything. Anytime that you feel that you’re inside a group looking out at the rest of the world thinking, “If they only knew what we knew, they’d understand how right we are.”

Also, if the leader is all-knowing. That’s a big one. And of course, the circular logic is the other thing. If everything comes back to this simple logic, if you can’t have rational thought or critical thought, that’s a cult.

What is it like to have this circular thought? What does it feel like for the individual in this logic loop?

Often, I would hear a song, or see a headline, or encounter someone that would bring up issues contradictory to the perspective of the group and it would just bounce off of me, because I knew that that was Satan invading. If it would start to make sense to me, it was Satan invading my thoughts. And this was reinforced by the group that that type of experience was as a result of a lack of faith. We were God’s soldiers and Satan was constantly trying to break down God’s soldiers. I needed to pray harder.

Any critical question — the kind that a scientist would welcome — was not acceptable. In circular logic, anything that questions belief means something evil, bad or Satan. It’s wrong to listen, it’s wrong to even play with ideas that are different. This is how unthinkable things can happen.

So, you stop using critical thought?

Yes. And the thing that takes the place of critical thought is someone else’s voice. That voice literally replaces critical thought.

Chris, if I could “like” the comment you just wrote, I would. That quote from Heffernan that you posted and your comments on it are interesting. Looking forward to watching both TED talks this afternoon with a nice cup of coffee..

http://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_dare_to_disagree.html

At 8:30 she talks about a certain “Joe” who reminded me very much about our Joe here.

Hefernan says: “So what does that kind of constructive conflict require? Well, first of all, it requires that we find people who are very different from ourselves. That means … we have to seek out people with different backgrounds, different disciplines, different ways of thinking and different experience, and find ways to engage with them.” In that regard, I see the glass of UBF already half full. In UBF chapters you have people from so different cultural and church backgrounds as in no other church. I really loved that. But to really make the glass full, it would be necessary that we engage with each other in an honest and open way and dare to disagree with each other. Not in a separating “agree to disagree” way (in the sense of “I don’t care”), but in a way that really brings us together and pleases God. I’m pretty sure he wants us to think. Otherwise why did he give us a brain?

Hefernan again: “But it strikes me that the biggest problems we face … mostly haven’t come from individuals, they’ve come from organizations, … So how do organizations think? Well, for the most part, they don’t. And that isn’t because they don’t want to, it’s really because they can’t. And they can’t because the people inside of them are too afraid of conflict. In surveys of European and American executives, fully 85 percent of them acknowledged that they had issues or concerns at work that they were afraid to raise. Afraid of the conflict that that would provoke, afraid to get embroiled in arguments that they did not know how to manage, and felt that they were bound to lose. Eighty-five percent is a really big number. It means that organizations mostly can’t … think together.”

I’m glad that this website helps us to think together.

The facts of my financial loss, though traumatic, was truly God’s mercy and grace to me. I came to understand Jer 31:3. It was as though I was born again…again. It was as though God orchestrated this to happen to draw me closer to Him. I was overwhelmed by the fact that God’s love for me did not change one iota despite my inexcusable folly.

I watched the rap hip hop. I guess my brain is too slow to be able to catch up with the speed of this genre. Perhaps a transcript might help me! Also, as an “old timer,” I prefer Led Zeppelin.

So encouraged by your vibrant and positive outlook with your faith in God. Do convey my warmest regards to Andy and Jennifer (and to the Yoons if they are there on their sabbatical).

Excellent talk by Prager. A memorable quote: “And it was then I understood that no matter how stark the reality, the human being fits it into a narrative that is palatable. The goat becomes the hero. The perpetrator becomes the victim. It was then I understood that Abed would never apologize.”

For sure, he rose above his circumstances and choose an attitude that allows him to process his adversity and move forward positively.

To respond directly: to say the words “I’m sorry” require a lot of courage — courage that I was blessed to witness in the tearful confessions of several senior shepherds at our most recent Easter Conference in Boston. To use an adage, this was a moment where I saw ‘the glass half full.’

To respond slightly differently: I watched a poignant TED talk by Joshua Prager, journalist at The Wall Street Journal, on his own personal story of remorse and forgiveness. I think we may be able to relate to, or be challenged by, his insights.

Definitely worth 18:31 minutes of time: http://www.ted.com/talks/joshua_prager_in_search_for_the_man_who_broke_my_neck.html

Anyways, I just wanted to say that it’s good that lots of people say “UBFrinds should be shut down”. That means somehow one more person has come onto this site and read that people are talking about issues in UBF in a relatively healthy way and will potentially move towards a realization of freedom and grace. The more that people say that the more it must mean peope are being effected and perhaps being lead towards wholeness and change.

Maybe people don’t realize that the majority of young people know how to “google” UBF and discover much worse sites and things said about UBF then things on here. At least if people come to this site they see that people’s ears aren’t completely closed but that there is a scent of hope and reconciliation! I mean for a girl whose close family member read all of the other sites on UBF and completely “hates” UBF… me talking about UBF on this site is one of the signs that not all people in UBF are completely unaccountable or ignoring issues. Thank you Jesus for UBFriends.

Lastly, I’m personally not worried about people who don’t like UBFriends or who are resistant towards steps towards wholeness and freedom… for there is a portion of unrestrained young UBFers that believe nothing is impossible with God when a few of his sons and daughters get together and pray for his will to be done!
This is my UBF theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbgp3wG40YE (it’s rap/hip hop so be warned to those who are not familiar with such a genre :) )

Perhaps the difficulty you might be alluding to is that it is just simply too hard for some to specifically and clearly acknowledge specific facts, events, statements and sins for which they should be sorry for. And yes, a blanket apology does little, I think.

More than anything else, I do not think any apology “will work” unless it is truly genuinely contrite, which requires true humility, brokenness, and a working of the Holy Spirit.

1) I’m sorry
2) You’re right
3) It’s my fault
4) I love you :)

Seriously, though, I like your point. I think the book of Job illustrates that simply being sorry when a person is hurting is really the best way to show that you care.

Saying “I’m sorry” also has no meaning if there is not a clear acknowledgement of what he/she/they is/are sorry about. No facts = no repentance.

Also, saying “I’m sorry” doesn’t necessarily mean “I’m wrong,” but it does mean, “Help me see where I went wrong.”

I’m thankful that many people have expressed their sincere “I’m sorry” to me and others in the past few months. I’m optimistic that this will occur more and more!