While open discussions are healthy, that’s not really for a church. If UBF still practices what it did 13 years ago, that’s something really wrong. A church like that will not sustain.
]]>http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/05/09/john-armstrong-on-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-7103
]]>This is another sad example of how the organization drives away the people whom it needs the most.
]]>UBF mission is more close to evangelism. Bosch defined Mission in more broad sense to love our neighbor as ourselves. In that sense all Christians are missionaries wherever we are. We are missionaries not just inside of the church, but also outside of the church, especially in our working place where we spend a bulk of our time, sometimes one third of our lifetime.
]]>Today, I personally do prefer the participatory model of jumping on God’s bandwagon and allow the Holy Spirit to blow where it pleases.
This articulation from a friend resonates with me: Rather than only bringing people to church to hear the Word, be the church with the Word wherever you go. I am not sure if I am paraphrasing you based on what you wrote.
]]>I sincerely apologize to you – sorry. Please keep in mind that I am still on the inside and try to be delicate in my “word-smithing.” You would have to have an outside discussion with me to get to my true feelings and very clear examples. After the above dialogue turned I made additional comments – consequently, you felt undermined. I do not retract my initial response to the discussion – sin is sin I do will not go against that.
]]>Yeah, Sharon, I was somewhat surprised he mentioned Guder the way he did. I can’t articulate what the book said because it was not an easy read. But I can’t imagine that Armstrong would recommend the book if Guder’s perspective was what Horton said–by emphasizing mission at the expense of the gospel.
Every UBF conference ends with Mission, including the upcoming one with either Mt 28:19; Mk 16:15; Jn 21:15-17; 1 Cor 15:58; etc. It means that UBF ends every conference with a command, an imperative, a forced squeezing out for something/mission that only the Gospel can do.
My prophecy is that until this stops, we will continue to have tired UBF missionaries whom we need to pray for year after year.
]]>In the missional church literature, and in neo-reformed (e.g. Gospel Coalition) circles, the term “gospel” is being used in different ways.
In reformed circles, “gospel” refers primarily to doctrines of salvation, such as justification by faith. Spreading the gospel is to propagate these truths, mainly done through proclamation. Mission is to actively participate in that.
In missional circles, “gospel” is more like kerygma. It is God’s salvific activity through Jesus Christ breaking into the present world through the active and creative work of the Holy Spirit. Mission is to actively participate in that.
]]>When UBF emphasizes mission, it relegates the gospel to secondary status. The gospel proclaimed produces vibrant life giving mission, but the mission emphasized (which is only a result of the gospel) sucks life out of UBF people and makes them childish, immature, irritable, reactive, overly sensitive and TIRED.
Mission NEVER gives life. Only the gospel does that (with mission thrown in).
]]>Thank you for reconsidering and listening for what I meant. I know maybe I have crossed the line for expression as someone who is still in UBF. But I am angry when I hear that so many people, friends have left. They left not because they lost faith or went cold with Christ but because they had ideas and contributions to make but were stopped. They saw some imperfections and wanted to correct them but couldn’t because of where they were or a leader stopped them. Whatever, your meaning in the marriage analogy – it bothered me because I have heard that applied to the congregation and serving in the UBF way. So I stood up and defended others on this blog because I see their love for Christ – but they now serve somewhere else. It is good to have this open discussion.
]]>Yes, I hope so, too. Of course, we know our hearts are deceitful. But my impression is that everyone speaking up here is speaking with the voice of truth and spirit of Christ’s love as best we can, aware of our own shortcomings as much as this is possible. That would include you and James Kim. I really do appreciate your participation in the discussion.
]]>This also expresses my sentiment: “Personally I think the horse is still breathing. That’s why I am staying. I am in a small chapter, appointed as a director. But I see myself as an elder and help run the church as one of the elders. I have to listen to other elders or even little children for strength, ideas, and directions.”
There is nothing more exhilarating to me than when a young person is not afraid of me and able to freely speak to me, disagree with me, question my words and decision, and object to what I say and do! Those are my favorite kind of people. They, I believe, are the future leaders. Good leaders are rarely unthinking unquestioning “Yes men.”
Sorry to say, but Yes men have been the predominant kind of leaders UBF have been attracting and raising. Why? Because anyone who dares to object or question their UBF chapter director becomes marginalized or shamed or worse. Eventually, they either become blindly unquestioning submitting members, or they leave for good.
]]>To them it is like a stab in the heart, since in their mind, they only “gave everything” for the sake of sheep and mission.
For them to read HOT comments on UBFriends is like being dragged alive through burning hot coals with full conscious awareness!
Yet, my CHALLENGE is if you avoid the pain, then you will never experience the marvelous grace in your most unbearable pain.
]]>When we have lost the ability to feel this pain, we are like people with advanced stages of leprosy.
]]>That’s me and my wife. We became the “crying couple” at our new church. We come in and sometimes just weep. The relief and the sadness and the joy and the regret and the happy memories and the painful memories and all these disarrayed emotions well up and I can only feel, “I’m here, I’m alive, I’m free.” Perhaps that’s how those girls in Cleveland feel.
]]>The police found a letter written by the man in which he confessed what he had done. But in that letter, he also partly blamed the victims because they agreed to get into his car. He wrote:
‘They are here against their will because they made a mistake of getting in a car with a total stranger.’
This reminds me of how we have taken countless examples of abuse and explained them away, saying that the people who were mistreated willingly submitted to it at the time, and in some cases they still won’t call it abuse, so it wasn’t abuse after all.
In many situations — especially where there is an imbalance of power, where the abuser is an authority figure — and where the victims are still in embedded in a community that has become very skilled at rationalizing it away — it is very common for victims to agree to it and even deny that it was abusive. People who were damaged by the abuse will often lack the self awareness to know how badly they have been affected by it. Some will even wear their abuse as a badge of honor. In ubf, I see some who back with pride on what they endured as proof that they are hard-core committed Christians, not like those wimpy cultural Christians or Sunday Christians.
Until the community wakes up and becomes willing to see abuse for what it is, there will be no end to rationalizing and spiritualizing and pretending as though it never happened.
]]>Dear Wesley,
I just want to help you to understand since I know that English idioms can be tricky. GC was not saying that UBF is dead. He was saying that ongoing discussion about certain UBF practices and their result is like a beating a dead horse. In other words, it is not necessary to rehash the outcomes of these practices as they are well documented here.
The dead horse is the repeated examples etc….from previous discussions. Thank you for choosing to misunderstand me. I recognize what others are saying but have prayed over the years and maintain my own personal struggle in UBF. But your reply to me is proof to everyone else – thank you. I only express in a nutshell what I have been reading and can somewhat relate to.
]]>I know what you were you getting at – that’s why I said I wanted to agree with you. Never in that part did you write or say UBF. But we all know what your “voice” represents, so I wanted to speak first as a present member of UBF since I had already seen Chris’ unedited response before it had been taken down.
I closed my reply with a request that all former members if they could submit an article or comment about what is going on in their present church congregation. Brian had done so, probably while I was typing my comment here. (Wesley the rest is not really aimed at you.)
My reason should not need stating but I will make it clear for those that can’t see my angle. There are many observations and comments about UBF on this blog that are seen as complaint or slandor or rebellion yada yada yada…
Never expect former members to exclusively praise UBF. Everyone knows that their relationshio with Christ was hot in the beginning of participating in UBF. The love for Christ never went cold. The honeymoon period never stopped. But what did happen was a spiritual awakening. Keep in mind that a young student develops over a period of time and after certain points accumulates more and more responsibilities in UBF. These are not bad things and many of us wanted to freely serve because of our love for Jesus. When Chris commented on May 7 about chores in the church I am sure that in the beginning it was a real pleasure to help be an environment maker. Afterall, in a job we have to clean up and organize, at home too, why not in a church that we pleasure in.
The love relationship gets impeded by all the work in UBF. Joshua expressed before about having the life sucked out of him. Vitaly gave us a translation meaning room to breathe. There are many examples I can take from comments but the common theme remains the same and believe me the horse is dead…..so we can stop beating it.
The honeymoon with UBF has gone cold and stale. To find the identity of individuals that make up this blog we cannot even look at present testimony after years of experience and maturing. Rather, we need to look at the first testimony that we ever wrote in UBF. What year of university were we? Did we have friends? How fulfilling had our life been back then? We need to know the then instead of the now, because the years have coloured our memory.
For many, UBF either gives us something to do after we have entered university or it stops us from seeing our friends and participating in other activities because they are seen as sinful. (Maybe yes, maybe no, I am not placing judgment on that.) The point is that UBF activities occupy our time so that we have the appearance of being holy when in reality we are being religious. The works approach has made our hearts cold to UBF.
We have all heard enough testimonies to know that some people become fatalistic because their situation limits their time. I simply cannot list various Bible verses that apply here because there are too many. When a Bible verse is given to someone in kindness or rebuke it is often taken to the extreme measure of interpretation causing the person to be over burdoned. The Bible verse by itself is not at all the problem, in fact it is beneficial for all people. However, in the application of UBF standards it becomes a weapon. Did we not hear that God desires mercy and not sacrifice?
I believe that the love relationship with Jesus is still burning hot for everyone who is commenting here. Even silent readers can have that same love. Those I am truly sorry for are the ones who have left Christ because they were disenchanted and disillusioned by their expreriences in UBF. But this is why it is so important for former members to follow the example of Brian and prepare an article expressing their present walk with God. Sharing a present experience from a new church will reveal the burning love for Christ that those people have and feel.
I still feel the marriage analogy was misplaced, because no one is complaining about being a Christian. They are stating facts about their experience in a religious institution. Their love for Jesus is still fresh and they are learning new things everyday about their relationship with God. It was the ministry relationship that grew cold because of endless work and human tactics to uplift the congregation. These same efforts to boost morale actually caused more stress upon people because activities require preparation, time, money, energy and planning….and oh yes, the format and program must comply with regulation. This means that people are not so much refreshed as they are pushed further still, but must smile because it is all in the name of keeping appearances.
]]>> If we are justing banging on the keyboard like an amateur, then I say we have not really submitted to Jesus as our Lord nor are we listening to the Spirit. It’s kinda like Jesus is not our co-pilot–he is our pilot.
“Finally I can stop my own cacophonous flailing and freely listen to the majestic symphony of God through Christ, enjoying its intricacy, its beauty, its fullness, and its awesome power.”
> Brilliant.
“UBFers are tired because they think they are the concertmaster, the maestro, the symphony members, and the composer. But actually, we’re just the audience.”
> Best answer yet to Ben’s question here!
]]>My goal is not to practice and be disciplined and trained so that I become a pro in serving Jesus. I don’t want to become a Christian virtuoso. In fact, I don’t even want to bang on the keyboard anymore. I don’t need to stumble my way through serving God, getting frustrated over every missed note. Finally I can stop my own cacophonous flailing and freely listen to the majestic symphony of God through Christ, enjoying its intricacy, its beauty, its fullness, and its awesome power. From each brother and sister, I can hear harmonies of the melody of God’s grace that blend together into such sweetness that my soul is uplifted. UBFers are tired because they think they are the concertmaster, the maestro, the symphony members, and the composer. But actually, we’re just the audience.
]]>Wesley, if you ever become a professional Christian and do what Jesus did, I will bow down and worship you, because then you would be God. John Piper has much to say in this regard. Brothers, we are not professionals. Piper nails this one!
]]>Maybe we could draw a truce: ubfers stop spinning people’s stories into glory-stories. And former members stop ______. What would ubfers want from former members in this truce?
]]>“As gospel workers, we are not tired because we work too much but because we don’t understand the work.”
> I don’t think understanding the work will help. I spent two decades trying to understand and be oriented. But like a boxer who only practiced and never got into a real fight, my life was a facade. I would contend that the reason we get tired has nothing to do with understanding or not working hard enough, but it is because we find new attempts at doing the work God already did ourselves. God says “Be still”. I only got rid of my tiredness when I began resting in the grace of God. Grace-driven works are not burdensome or tiring.
]]>The problem is that UBF leaders don’t even know what the task of a “gospel worker” is. They obviously believe that training people, humiliating people, disciplining people, arranging marriages, making people follow mandatory rules that are not in the Bible, controlling people, manipulating people, following a “spiritual heritage” created by an abusive leader, are all tasks of a “gospel worker”, maybe they even believe they are “fun things”. Likewise, many confused members believe that total subordination, unquestioning obedience, sitting on chairs for many hours a week listening to the same boring stuff for the sake of self-re-indoctrination are all tasks of a gospel worker. So this is the first question we must ask, you and ourselves: “What is the task of a gospel worker”? “What is the gospel?” We are trying to do this on this blog. UBF hasn’t given us the right answers, even answers that worked antipodal to the gospel after some time.
The story about the piano practice is completely irrelevant in this context. I know that beautiful concert. But I also know the not so beautiful context under which Chris K was ordered to practice around the clock at that time.
]]>@wesley, your comment above has troubled me greatly but I could not express why. Please read gc’s comment above. gc expresses my heart almost perfectly.
]]>First, I would not use the husband-wife analogy. Why? Because UBF ministry relationships often become like an abuser and abusee. That is an abused wife (the victimized member) who may be afraid, in denial, or determined that maybe they can change the situation. (etc…and so on). The abusive husband is the body of UBF (including one’s personal shepherd, chapter director etc…) Many platitudes are made that things will be different and the victim may go for years believing this until someone outside either steps in to help the abused member or the member eventually leaves.
There was occasion that I felt like this very much and when I was still a student it often bothered me that maybe I would bump into X shepherd on campus after leaving. Of course I have stayed the course and I am struggling everyday. But that does not mean UBF is free of the accusations being made. Many people have left or are borderline. There comes a time when a person has to say enough is enough. As Joshua said above, “I utterly rejected this advice.” He became wise to the platitudes if you have read enough of his contributions to this website.
It is sad, but yes, many contributers to this blog have left UBF. Because of this the gloves are off and there is more sting to every word that someone says. In some ways I envy their honesty because I must be careful with my turn of phrase and expression. I still want to make UBF a home for me and my family. But I already know what that means in reality. I am not wearing rose coloured glasses.
What needs to be re-stated? In short, leaders like Joe, Sharon, Ben, Brian, Joshua, Mark and so on have already attempted the diplomatic approach within UBF dialogue. If the nay sayers have not already read various postings, there was never an action taken without careful thought. The feelings of leaders were taken into account as was the time and place to communicate problems. The problem has been stated already too many times on this website. UBF leaders and hardliners dismiss any concerns and no longer want to listen. As a result if change occurs it is rather a compromise from the actual desired course of action. It is also not in a proper timely manner.
After giving service to UBF ministry for more than 20 years I am sure it was a stressful decision to make for some of these leaders. The same leaders who stood up to battle previous reform attempts as can be seen by discussion.
All this to say, if a UBF member still does not understand the premise and objective of this blog then I advise that person to wake up and open his/her eyes, ears and hearts. The former and present members who take the time to express the feelings or the ideas that come to them are crying out for the benefit of UBF. I believe no one here wants to see UBF disappear, but they do want to see readical changes and a call for accountability. They also want the leadership to stop and listen so that real resolution may occur. As far as I am concerned their are no bitter, vindictive or unrepentant members here. The only members I can recognize when I read are the wounded and ignored.
If it isn’t enough to provide endless comments on this blog, then I ask any willing former member to provide one thing. Please, if you are willing share an account from your present church and congregation. We will all take notice of the flavour of your thankfulness and walk with God. None of us are anti-UBFers, but we will fight against the abuse and the recurring blind eye that is turned when someone tries to speak up.
]]>What I basically understand you’re saying is this: if we keep on doing the things that make us tired, keep on pushing ourselves and pushing ourselves and practicing them until we master them, then we won’t be tired in the end. I was told similar advice just as my family was contemplating following God’s leading out of UBF. I was told, “You’re having a hard time because he haven’t really tasted the deep personal relationship with Jesus yet. Stay and keep on studying the Bible really deeply and write really deep testimonies. Then you’ll meet Jesus personally and be ok.” I utterly rejected this advice. Doesn’t this imply that I can work my way into fellowship with Jesus?
]]>I would prefer to be at the right place at the right time where the wind is blowing. Five hundred saw the Risen Jesus, but only 120 showed up at the prayer room on the day of Pentecost.
]]>Prov 28:23 “Whoever rebukes a person will in the end gain favor rather than one who has a flattering tongue.”
]]>By now critiquing shortcomings of UBF, I am in no way being unthankful, even if some keep on insisting that if you are thankful you should not complain. Personally I don’t buy that. Because I love my wife and kids, I will critique them in areas that I believe are unhealthy. I expect them to do the same for me, and thank God that they do!
]]>“John had this ability to see what was coming in the days ahead. So he would often prepare or warn us what would be coming next. Concerning the Vineyard, John used to always say that an outpouring has about a twenty-year life span. Then hinges will get too much in cement and we’ll start building monuments to ourselves. He said, “I don’t expect us to be any different. But the Lord is faithful, and he’ll pour out his Spirit again and again. It may not be here, but let’s all be watching and listening, and as soon as that happens, let’s go where He is!”
John had a great respect and regard for the whole Church and believed that the Lord’s hands are on the whole thing. He knew it was possible for a movement to be sustained for hundreds of years. Look at the Moravians. John didn’t have any huge concern that we had to protect anything. He really didn’t think it was that important. He figured our grandchildren would find where the Lord was pouring himself out if the presence of Jesus wasn’t here anymore. And that’s what we would want.”
I think that such words are very typical for cult leaders (only).
]]>Thanks Sharon for sharing Joe’s message. In one of his comment recently, Joshua shared how ubf’s purpose for conferences is to plant a sense of indebtedness in the participants so that they would work harder for the ministry. How opposing it is to the spirit of the gospel?
The same applies when leaders tell you that since you have been born again and were blessed with job, marriages etc in ubf, therefore it must be God’s permanent will for that person to remain in ubf and be buried some day in ubf. The GD told me that since God’s calling and mission are irrevocable, my decision to leave ubf and start something else could not have been God’s will.
I think if ubf learns to “release” people by blessings those whom God might be calling for some other work or ministry, she will be blessed much more and will be in less conflicts with God and His plans.
I would hazzard to say that there is a definate misunderstanding of the so-called protestant work ethic in UBF (ie. “the devil makes use of idle hands…”).
It seems in a year the typical chapter gets excited about Easter (sometimes a conference), summer conference and the Christmas worship service. Planned throughout a school year are Bible academies. If you are a leader you may have a couple workshops to attend or senior meetings or even other conferences targeted at certain minorities in the ministry. But all of this is not enough to help us rest, instead it burdens us to do many tasks in way of message, dance, drama, presentation, name tags, registration, booking, payment, cars (rentals)……the list goes on and on for any needed supplies. I cannot forget (mandatory) prayer meetings in preparation of these events to ensure the numbers of attendees.
The average daily activity consists of your job, taking care of the children, fishing and doing 1:1’s, daily bread and morning prayer etc….
Personally, I know the capacity of some people and in most cases there should be no trouble to do most of the activities we do in UBF. BUT…….But, I fear there is a lack of love in doing these things from the majority of people. In fact, things often seem to be done out of obligation or tradition as has been quoted before. There must be something wrong with your faith if you cannot comply with the demands. What might you be doing in your personal time? Let that go and engage in UBF activities because they maintain a righteousness that personal interests cannot. We all need our personal time and interests to be ourselves. God’s word helps us to recharge, but so does the sports activity or music event or having fellowship with others or whatever pastime we might have.
We work to support our family, but serving God should come naturally as our thanksgiving to God. Volunteering our time to serve God’s ministry should be more than a pleasure, but it turns out to be a chore in UBF. Even if we are physically able we are often emotionally unwilling because we are given tasks and cannot freely serve the way God intended for us. The UBF regiment is too prescribed and not adaptable enough to people who get excited in a different way for serving God.
It is a funny……no ridiculous example, but I have even heard shepherds get told from a director that their cold or flu is the result of their (private) sin problem. No, I would say it is because that person is a husband/wife and parent and has many responsibilities that wear him/her down. Some people never get a chance to rest – I have heard some examples of people holding down two-three jobs to support their family, because they could not yet find something in their field.
If we are tired it is because we are not machines, but the UBF hamster wheel expects us to be so. I am sorry to say, but we cannot turn a blind eye to what is happening in the ministry. I will use an outside ministry example, in Korea, there are school children less than 10 years of age who suffer from skin problems and/or tick disorders. This is because of the stress that they face with education etc…. I refuse to go further with cultural comments, but it must be said among all of us not just native shepherds. The live to work approach in UBF is not working. It is just making people irratated, frustrated and tired.
I believe that UBF chapters can make a change of things but it may go against a lot of old generation members who are hardliners on tradition. So what….the appeal should be towards a younger dynamic generation anyway. We must keep on praying for change otherwise leave and contribute to the body of Christ in another way.
]]>“Two days ago, I spoke at SWS on John 20:19-23. This is the Apostle John’s quickie version of the Great Commission + Pentecost. He came to the disciples bearing peace (shalom — which signifies wholeness and restoration of the individual and relationships within the commnunity, society and with the whole created world — the reign of the Christ). Then he imparted the Holy Spirit. And the only “command” that he gave them was “If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” I believe that this is a mandate to carry the gospel to the world. Not merely by making the declaration that God forgives our sins. But by living out the reality of forgiveness within the community. Jesus says a similar thing in Matthew 18:18: “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Forgiveness is a cancellation of all claims and debts against others. It is a loosening of the cords of guilt, indebtedness and expectations that we hold against one another and use to bind one another. Unless and until we untie those cords, there can be no love between persons; there will only be bartering, trading, and tit-for-tat arguments. The gospel is all about the untying cords of debt. When Jesus died, he said “It is finished” — Greek tetelestai, meaning “paid in full.” Jesus cancelled our debt. He doesn’t expect us to pay him back. And he doesn’t want us to pay him back. He just wants us to receive his love and know that we are deeply loved. Attempts to pay Jesus back for what he did for us through service or mission are antithetical to the gospel. And when Christians serve God expecting a payback, or when they invest in people expecting a payback, that service is antithetical to the gospel. And it prevents the growth of love.”
…..prevents the growth of love. No love, no nothing.
]]>“For many Christians the word “training” connotes education. I would never want to have be operated on by a surgeon who had never been to medical school, but neither would I like to be the first person on which that a surgeon, fresh out of medical school, operated. The medical profession is a good example from which to draw. A person desiring to be a surgeon needs to jump through a fair number of educational hoops in order complete his or her undergraduate degree. Then, the grueling first year of medical school happens where the intention seems to be to either torture the student into withdrawing or hardening the survivor to the reality of his or her profession. After three years of medical school, the student must intern for a year during which he or she is discipled by a more experienced doctor. This is followed by three or more years serving as a resident. Medicine is one of the few professions where mentoring or discipleship is a common and indispensable practice. The pertinent question is why it is seen as normal and necessary to train and mentor doctors so meticulously and yet something as important and as complicated as communicating the gospel and living spiritual truth in a cross-cultural setting should be treated so cavalierly?”
]]>When people ask how I am after starting West Loop, I actually say, “Now I feel as though I can finally отдыхать (breathe)!” Then they either look shocked or upset. I hope I am using the word отдыхать correctly.
]]>* theological (wrong view of God/gospel);
* wrong priorities (mission without worship);
* false pride (elitism, exclusivism);
* studying the SAME PASSAGES over and over for 50 years!;
* missionaries direct others as though they are the Holy Spirit.
Thanks, MJ, for the article that expresses cultural Christianity in the U.S. excellently. But UBF thinks that she is challenging this nominal Christianity by championing mission.
UBF truly does not realize that the solution to cultural and nominal Christianity is not mission, but proclaiming Christ and the gospel (1 Cor 1:17, 23; 2:2; Ac 20:24).
By emphasizing mission ad nauseum, UBF has turned mission into a sick idol, that only makes people tired, even after a conference. Sorry to keep quoting Joshua but UBF “sucks the life out of people” by squeezing people with mission and “UBF core values.”
]]>“Sacred Cows that need to be turned into hamburger:
1. Worship services ad nauseum
2. Preaching without teaching/training
3. Orthodoxy without orthopraxy
4. Proliferation of church property dedicated to no one but those already Christians
5. Education as sufficient preparation for ministry without character development and competence in disciple-making
6. Understanding the “gospel” as primarily an issue of salvation.”
Sounds so ironical in view of what I wrote above of not being able to get fresh air on Sundays.
]]>I can totally affirm that. In the last years, I was expected to do choires and attend meetings in the center from morning to evening on Sundays. Often you would not even see the sun if it was shining outside. You stayed all the day inside with all the other members in rooms without fresh air, and then when I said in the evening that I could not attend yet another meeting because I have headache (which I usually had on Sunday evenings), I was told I did not love my brothers because otherwise I would have more interest in listening to their testimonies.
But I think the real reason why UBFers are not allowed to really rest is because without constant re-affirmation and indoctrination by leaders and shepherds and self-indoctrination, people would soon realize the problems. Therefore it is not allowed to step outside of the UBF hamster wheel even for a short while and look at it from some distance. You need to always be inside spinning until your head is so dizzy that you can’t even think of leaving the wheel.
]]>In my view nobody gets tired or burnout because of too much of work/ mission or “sacrifices”. The reasons for the burnout are primarily theological. It comes from a wrong view of God, e.g. “God is an angry God and will punish me if I do not join early morning prayer/ do the daily bread/ go for fishing/ raise disciples/ do not obey the director, etc, etc.” God’s love does not increase or diminish even a little according to our performance.
Burnout also comes from wrong priorities. UBF places such a high priority on mission while so less priority on worship. It is like “love your neighbor” is at the top of the list while “love the Lord your God” is much down the list.
Though there is this false pride of being a Bible-centered and Bible-teaching ministry, burnouts are also because of studying the same few books/passages year after year with the same age old interpretations and applications handed down by the founders, as a result missing so much of the big picture of God and His plans and promises.
But mostly I think burnout is because of neglecting fellowship with the Holy Spirit, and neglecting His gifts and His services, that includes our stubborn refusal get right with Him in the areas He keeps highlighting.
]]>That’s easy: Because most of them don’t submit to Jesus as their Lord. Actually, in reading John 17:1-4 again, I think I see why ubf is so reluctant to dwell on it:
1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
In Jesus’ prayer:
– JESUS has ALL the authority (not ubf directors)
– JESUS is THE source of eternal life (not ubf meetings)
– JESUS did ALL the work already (what work is left to do?)
– JESUS gets the glory and GOD gets the credit (not ubf directors)
Maybe, but I think it is more to it. ubf theology turns EVERY gift or promise or word from God into a COMMAND. Even in the “So loved” material online, you can see their language is filled with directives and command, dictating the ubf fantasy and faulty ubf theology:
[Note that John 17 the heart of Jesus’ discourse is skipped over…how can we know the love Jesus taught by skipping such important teaching, which gives meaning to all the prior chapters and even the following chapters about the cross. Remove Jesus’ prayer in John 17 and you will distort the meaning of Jesus’ cross and totally mangle Jesus’ sending out directions.]
“So Loved. So Love.
“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” “As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” John 13:34b; 20:21b
The world we live in is full of hatred, conflict and strife. What we all need is love, forgiveness and peace. “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (Jn 3:16). John chapters 13-17 are Jesus’ last discourse with his disciples. He shared with them the foremost desire of his heart: It was love. Jesus loved his disciples and commanded them to love one another and to create a love community in the world (Jn 13:34). So he sent them into the world with his message of love (Jn 20:21). Since then, Jesus has been transforming the world with God’s love.
Jesus invites you to have a love relationship with God, to be a part of his love community, and to serve the world with God’s love. Please join the 2013 International Bible Conference with brothers and sisters from over 90 nations in the worldwide community of love. Let’s receive God’s love newly and renew Jesus’ vision to transform the world. Let’s learn how to serve the world together with God’s love and vision.”
The dictation-style command-speak is in my top 10 most infuriating things ubf directors do. Some cannot even ask “When can we meet?” They simply command you: “Tell me when you can meet.”
]]>@Vitaly. A reason UBF messages may be forgettable is because the point of EVERY message is the command to mission, rather than to simply hear and receive the gospel.
Even this ISBC on the love of Jesus, UBF wants to make the point mission!
]]>I asked my fellow former ubfers about ubf messages. They couldn’t remember when they heard a ubf message that inspired them and gave rest to their souls(I couldn’t either).
]]>I agree and that means the gospel Jesus proclaimed is missing almost entirely. What hindered me for years from understanding the gospel more deeply is this twisting of Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:28-30.
Jesus said this >>> 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
But ubf theology teaches this >>> “Come to ubf, all you who are weary and burdened, and we will give you meaningful work to do. Take the yoke of obedience and learn from your shepherd, for we are zealous and full of ambition in our hearts, and you will find a noble and pure dream for your souls. For only a yoke that is hard and heavy will train you to be a high-quality bible teacher.”
Jesus’ yoke is grace. That is why it is easy and light.
Rest is at the heart of the gospel message proclaimed from Genesis to Revelation.
]]>“I don’t look at UBF as a scapegoat for my personal relationship with God. I have lost many friendships. I was constantly told just to sit there and do 1to1 bible study, then maybe one day I’d be worthy to serve or volunteer ect. I was told I wasn’t smart enough, good enough, worthy enough. Some try to rewrite my testimony. When I started going to another church, I was told I was going to hell, lost my religion, and had turned my back on God. I was treated this way at more than one UBF. I was told my new church was a cult. I left UBF because I couldn’t take the spiritual abuse any longer. We all have are experiences, each is different. It doesn’t mean the abuse didn’t take place. I was also expected to drive quite a distance. I have gone to many of the conferences. There is no time for true fellowship, they are exhausting. Bible studies should be measured by quality not quantity. The small UBF house churches don’t receive support from bigger chapters. I know I have seen it happen. I also know other churches who are close by several UBF chapters are growing by leaps and bounds by Gods grace. I’m speaking of hundreds. Who do I see in attendance is ex UBF members.”
]]>@vmi. Great quote, thanks. UBF “threatens” people to jump through the unnecessary hoops of UBF methodology/core values. This not only makes people tired, but produces exclusivity and elitism, which has ZERO life giving power, and “sucks the life out of people.” (phrase borrowed from Joshua).
]]>” We need to create an environment where people can ‘do’ without feeling threatened, restrained, or made to ‘jump through’ unnecessary ‘hoops’ in order to fulfill the dream God has put in their heart.” – fastest growing church leader –
]]>By and large, UBFers behave as if they deeply regret the fact that they are human beings: “Why oh why am I a human being? Why oh why can’t I be an angel? Angels don’t have families to think about. They don’t have messy personal relationships that get in the way. Angels don’t have to rest. Angels don’t have to worry about being good neighbors, good citizens, good parents, good spouses. Why can’t I just be an angel.” And so, rather than trying to be the human person that God made them to be, they work and work and work and work and work and work and pretend that they’re an angel who only serves God’s mission. When they get burned out, there’s a conference to recharge their fantasy. If anything tries to interrupt their fantasy, they can just ignore it and keep on working.
]]>“In addition to the money for conferences, time off work for conferences, paying a sitter to watch the kids ect. The time in preparing for conferences, then there is no rest at the conferences, going from one bible study to the next. Their is no time to reflect, no time to fellowship, no time to meet others, or have some fun, and relax. The church I now go is a host site for the global leadership summit. They do a woman’s conference once a year, the one night the woman in the church get a little pampered and can recharge. Have time to draw close to God. This is why so many families have left UBF.”
“I didn’t even have kids while in UBF and I always felt tired… I can’t imagine how much harder it is on young families when the expectations are the same as when you were a single college student.”
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