Comments on: A Korean Critic http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9125 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 22:42:45 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9125 Jesus was a rebel, with a cause (money changers tables, pharisees, etc)

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9116 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 18:31:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9116 leaders don’t listen, gee why should followers?

can’t beat ’em, join ’em; i am the master race…i will not give, i will get…i am entitled…i will live in fantasy world of all is well..

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9106 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 13:10:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9106 koreans ought to be thankful for this site, wow! free godly advice at fingertips

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9105 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:55:58 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9105 Hi fermi, thanks for sharing your honesty about some of UBFriends “racially insensitive” comments. There is surely too much to say about racism. I once even asked if there is racism in UBF: http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/04/05/is-there-racism-in-your-church/

Here’s a “cute” true story. When a Korean missionary was helping an American shepherd to marry, she strongly proposed to have Korean food for his wedding. He adamantly refused because he prefers American food. This missionary later told me that he is racist because he refused a Korean menu. The American later also told me that she is racist because she was so strongly insistent on having Korean food at his wedding. I find such stories cutely entertaining. Sorry if this story is racially offensive.

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9102 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:20:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9102 maybe they will be addressed soon, maybe ‘big brother’ needs to investigate organizational finances for tax ‘exemptness’…

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9101 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:11:48 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9101 criticize a korean, now what reason would anyone ever have to do that?:)

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9093 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 03:34:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9093 bury bones across town? let’s face it coming to america may not be the easiest, but certainly not the hardest missionary commitment on earth..

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By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9085 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:29:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9085 Thanks fermi. My 24 years in ubf were mostly quite good (as I’ve said repeatedly). It is the past 2 years of going through the “exit process” that jaded me. If you are “out”, ubf suddenly becomes a whole new world…opposite of when you are “in”.

Had I received a Christian response from the leadership before I decided to leave (when I was trying to stay) or even after leaving, I don’t think I would be so jaded. I would have other problems, but I wouldn’t be jaded. (and just a quick shout out to a few friends in Toledo who have recently started to have a good response, I thank you.)

So your feedback is huge, fermi. One reason I am so jaded is because of the dead silence I mostly receive from ubf people. Often I am over-the-top angry or bitter because 1) I know anger/bitterness is real and 2) it might make someone frustrated enough to start talking to me!

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By: joshua http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9084 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:22:55 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9084 @fermi:

Sweeping generalizations really are distasteful aren’t they? I hope that everyone can be more sensitive to this. I was discouraged whenever I heard statements by UBFers that started with “Canadians are …”. First of all, Canadians are so diverse, even we struggle to define ourselves, and this difficulty in pin-pointing who we are is a big part of our identity. So when people make such generalizations, it really rubs the wrong way.

Now if only I could follow my own advice!

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By: fermi http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9082 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:15:20 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9082 thanks Brian, i am deeply grateful for your honesty. i can never fully understand what you went through, but i do hope the best for you.

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By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9081 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:11:20 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9081 Thanks for sharing that fermi; we welcome your feedback. We don’t wear masks here, so if something bothers you, please share it. Yes my intro was provocative, and intentionally so. I don’t pretend to not be bitter. I do have some bitterness against ubf and against Koreans. That’s not fair to express it, so I toned my article down (believe it or not). I am jaded against ubf and Korea, but I’m trying to see beyond my personal experience. That’s not easy, but feedback like yours helps me to see where I was too strong.

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By: fermi http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9080 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:03:31 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9080 thanks for this post. im a semi-avid reader of this blog, and i am just commenting here to state a little of my own critique of this specific post. I know you didn’t mean it in any demeaning way, but beginning the post with “Critical thinking. Can a Korean do it? Could a Korean display the healthy attributes of a critic?” really turned me off. maybe it’s been mentioned on this site before, but whenever a non-Korean tries to (knowingly or unknowingly) imitate/mock Koreans in a message or in announcements, i find it distasteful. other than that, i really appreciated the rest of the post and this blog in general. i realize this comment doesn’t really much to the discussion or the content of the post, but i just wanted to put this out there. thanks!!

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By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9078 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 18:19:46 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9078 I think it is worth pointing out a clarification regarding the author’s mention of 2 Timothy 2:16. The mission pledge seems to be based on 2 Timothy 2:3 and 2 Timothy 2:15. New bible students should probably be aware of this pledge and realize they will be asked to take this oath at some point. And it is really an oath and vow to God for life. This “bury your bones” attitude is unfortunatley expanded to include all ubf activity, rather than a proper oath that reflect commitment to Jesus supremely.

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By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9046 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 17:44:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9046 Correct, big bear. Such things are hidden to outsiders. That is part of why this is all so complicated. Even JA took several years to see the “dark side” (which he does now).

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By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9045 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 17:41:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9045 “Do practical issues drive the doctrinal inadequacies, or vice-versa? Is it a chicken-and-egg sort of thing?”

Intriguing observation, joshua, thanks. If you have a two-legged stool, then yes, you have a chicken and egg situation where you are always balancing “what” do to with “how” you do it. The third leg to add for balance is “why”.

Or another way to look at it, which we’ve mentioned somewhere before, is to consider these three: orthopdoxy (correct belief), orthopraxy (correct actions) and orthpathy (correct emotions). That is an oversimplified expression of the “pathy’s” (as I call them). But I think you get the point.

We human beings need to care for our mind, our body and our soul. ubf constantly teeters on the brink of implosion because they ignore the soul/emotion/feeling part of human beings. Often, as I look back, I stood on a one-legged stool–just trying to focus on orthopraxy, ie. how to behave.

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9044 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 17:40:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9044 I FIND THE FINDINGS TO BE VERY ACCURATE OF ubf but the abuse and the unwriiten rules are not addressed.

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By: joshua http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/02/a-korean-critic/#comment-9043 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 17:23:49 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6403#comment-9043 I’m happy to see this sort of outside critique. Kudos to the author, and to you Brian for bringing this to our attention.

The good points the author mentions are very true, and certainly represent only a sample of the many wonderful attributes of UBF and the people in UBF.

The negative points are also very accurate. It’s interesting that the negative points (seem) to deal with primarily theological, ecclesiastical, and soteriological issues (i.e. doctrine) and less on practical issues. In contrast, I’d say that the discussions on UBFriends is weighted more towards the practical issues. I’d like to see an article describing how the doctrinal issues and practical issues overlap and correlate. Do practical issues drive the doctrinal inadequacies, or vice-versa? Is it a chicken-and-egg sort of thing?

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