1) How loyal are you to the ubf heritage?
2) If you reject the heritage, how critical are you?

So “healthy” in ubf typcially means you are loyal or you shut up. Therefore I am seen as extremely unhealthy. But I’m curious to know… has this attituded changed at all in 2013?

“OUR family is still waiting an sincere apology from Ubf hQ…”

I’m sure you already know this, but such a thing won’t happen anytime soon. And what we really seek is not apology, but change and an end to the abuse, as you’ve pointed out. Personally, I heard many “I’m so sorry” type responses. But no sincere apology. So I decided to take Ben and Joe’s sincere apology and leave it at that.

“Last week I got to talk with my oldest daughter”

I am so happy to hear this. I’ve been praying for many months now that such a meeting would happen. I hope and pray for the healing river of grace and peace for all of your family.

too often groups become ‘blackhole’ taking much but giving little to anyone but their own ‘favored’, or ‘oneway’ street for selfish benefit (their way or the highway, as if they own what really belongs to God alone)

God hates favoritism for ‘big’ people; He loves helping ‘little’ people; organizations can either learn to follow God’s right ways, or eventually decay beyond repair/implode into nothingness

my prayer is that someday those with resources to spare/influence to share will use it helping others, without obligation, trusting God that those helped will someday somewhere help someone, passing on the blessing (a good ‘dominoe’ effect)

“The church and its leaders lost the right to tell you how to heal when it inflicted the pain.”

There is no dichotomy in God between sacred and secular. It even includes “taking out the garbage”! In our context, we need to do everything in the presence of God whether it is one to one bible study or working or taking out of the garbages.

Alex Strauch said in his book, “Biblical eldership”, pastors can be easy target when things are not going well. So I think it is very important to pray for our leaders, chapter directors and so on. Because of this collective leadership is more biblical and healthy way.

In UBF, pastors and chapter directors usually give prayer topics and set the tone and direction of prayers of the congregation. If the pastors are work and performance oriented, they will give prayer topics in that direction. If they truly love God with all their hearts, mind and strength and are ready to listen and obey God’s will, they will set the tone of prayer topics based on their faith and spirituality and lead the congregation in that way.

When I think about Jesus’ life of prayer I am amazed. Even though Jesus is the son of God, he prayed several times a day alone in solitary place and sought God to do His will. I believe he prayed based on “The Lord’s prayer” a lot. Also I believe all of his healing and preaching ministry came from his intense love for God and love for people. He did not have his own set grandiose plan but he listened to God very carefully moment by moment and set the direction of his ministry (Mark 1:38)

Without this kind of prayer life, our prayer can be very habitual and worse yet we are not doing “God’s will”. We are praying for our own plan and will instead of following and obeying his will. That means we are asking God to come and help our plan whenever we are in need. This is tantamount to humiliating Jesus. We are putting a cart in front of a horse.

That’s why contemplative spirituality is so important for all of us beginning from leaders.

You say we should have a life style of Mary more than Martha. What do you think is expressed by the ISBC motto “serve the world together with God’s love”? The spirit of Mary or the spirit of Martha?

Personally I would like to invite you to one of the elders’ prayer meeting on some Tuesday evening after ISBC. We need many inputs and fresh and dynamic ideas from younger generation because this church belongs to all of us.

The point you make is an important one. In discussions that are contentious and emotionally charged, it’s crucial to pay attention to the words that we use and understand the implicit messages that they carry.

If I hear a ubf leader say “We need focus on Jesus,” I instinctively assume that he mean this: “You guys have no business talking about problems in UBF or making changes in UBF. Those issues are not your concern. They are above your pay grade. Leave that to the top leaders. Get back to your own business, which is Bible study and testimony writing and fishing and feeding sheep.”

Perhaps it is unfair to interpret those words in that way. But real experiences with real leaders are causing that reaction in me. I lknow James Kim well enough, and trust him well enough, to believe that he probably didn’t mean that. But that is because he has made a real effort to step out of his comfort zone and engage in this difficult dialogue.

I am truly sorry for the labels you received simply because you could not take UBF anymore (after 24 years!). Someday the offending UBF leaders may somehow realize, by God’s mercy and help, just how much they cause their sheep and members to feel that they just cannot take UBF anymore, not even for one more minute.

Until this top-down oppression stops (by God’s mercy), many will perceive UBF to be a very sickly wounding machine, rather than a gentle healing balm.

@David, thank you for pointing out that while individual spiritual growth is very important, leadership spiritual growth is also very necessary (otherwise the only possible outcome will be healthy individuals over-enduring an unhealthy collective, or healthy individuals moving on to form their own healthier collectives..)

it’s easy for churches to help who they want, it’s harder to help who they should; the catholic church didn’t help kids it abused (afraid of losing power/$) until society forced it to by lawsuit, then much more image/donations were lost than if they had addressed it themselves sooner by admitting fault/paying reparative counseling at the time; the new pope seems to be addressing over-opulence of the vatican headquarters which accumulated while many parishioners remained poor around the world

it’s like the mechanic saying, ‘you can pay me now, or you can pay me later’;
it’s ok to give problems a little time to see if they work themselves out, but if gets worse, sooner or later need to address/fix before gets too bad to fix/too costly to recover

ubf/religion stands at a crossroads, serious problems can be addressed/reasonable reparation made (for example, counseling fees provided) for those most affected; or at some point society backlashes & resorts to legal means which is much more unpleasant/costly

personally i’m at a point of ‘going with God’, He has moved me to address my family’s needs myself; i can’t change what happens with many years past giving but i can redirect most of my current ‘old testament defined’ giving to follow ‘new testament precepts’: pay debts (including college loans; over-donating while needing to borrow government required ‘expected family contributions’ adds up..)

i think churches would do well to become less program inventing/money collecting which fosters ‘business’ (“busy-ness”) mentality & imitate Jesus more: simple living, simple worship, simple service (Jesus had no need to amass buildings or excessive financial reserves); true faith is what most families have no choice but to do, depend on God for tomorrow for today has it’s own costs/troubles as Jesus put it;

let’s get real: why do churches too often become blackholes absorbing too much around them? shouldn’t ‘rich’ churches immediately obey God by giving most excess to the poor in the world? didn’t early church (acts) set good example by whoever had too much, giving so that poor could have enough?
maybe us humans are too weak to handle religion spiritually; let’s grow up by using our own resources to help our own families first (to avoid burdening the church ourselves) then when/as able contribute excess to help others;
certainly there is no place in religion for amassing wealth the way world does
(otherwise we do nothing but create a corrupted religious kingdom, as bad or worse than world; just as any old testament prophet..:)

what i mean is, in Christ Alone i stand (or fall) so whether i’m hanging in there with a particular religious group at the time (st. francis style) or moving on
to another/even effectively “on my own” before God for a time (martin luther style), the spiritual path continues

risking sacrilege, i mutter words from an old jimi hendrix song: ‘i am what i am, thank God’

“I felt indignant when I heard some leader said, “If you don’t like UBF legacy, leave.” or they kicked out people who protested for wrongs, as if they are God. I mean, you don’t need to leave because you are not accepted by some leaders.”

Thanks for clarifying! So if I understand you, you are acknowledging David’s legitimate right to both stay and speak up, and to not have to be the one who leaves. If so, then I agree.

In fact, that was my first thought back in 2011. All I did was share one conference report that didn’t conform to the ubf “glory story” format. And the fight was on. It lasted 4 months, and I couldn’t take it anymore. I remember thinking, “Why should I be the one to leave? God called me here. This is my ministry.” But in fact, I was wrong. It was never my ministry. Suddenly I found myself labeled as “troublemaker”, “poisonous”, “spiritually dead” and my favorite “possibly demon possessed”. I was suddenly the “voice of Satan attacking ubf”. There is only so much of that kind of fighting a human being can do.

@Green, thanks for the reply. I agree, I need to see this from the point of view of God’s sovereingty. But I’ve been questioning lately how much of the decision God has left up to me. I think he’s given me a lot of freedom in this matter, provided that it’s based on love. And the tension present in the interaction between our individual convictions and that of the congregation is what I’ve been trying to grapple with as of late. How do I resolve this conflict; is it even possible in this lifetime?

“Hope you never leave the church unless it is clearly God’s will. You are called to be in this church.”

Why do you feel the need to say this? How do you know who is called where and when they should leave or stay?

Doesn’t church belongs to God? God sits on the throne and rules. Those who think they are leaders must fear God. Church is not their possession(even founders).
The one who put you here on earth, in this church, in your family, in your working place is God and He has divine will and purpose. I think what you spoke up is right and courageous if those stemmed from your love for God.
Hope you never leave the church unless it is clearly God’s will. You are called to be in this church.

@Sharon. I’ve talked to many people who are trying to embrace these processes of redefinition. But again, it’s hard to fight against the tide of fifty years of heritage. Sometimes I feel as though I have two choices: stay and pray for the leadership to have a change of heart all the while necessarily becoming spiritually insular in order to protect myself, living out the gospel on my own terms (which of course doesn’t work) or simply leave. Searching for answers.

“Another important thing is to see more and more people among us to be transformed and changed by the grace of God.”

And what about those who are not among you anymore? Those former leaders who collectively gave millions toward your $13 million reserves? Those former leaders who sacrificed tens of thousands of hours to try and make your heritage work? And I’m not talking about 1976. I am talking about 2011. Do you feel any responsibility for their transformation?

I agree with you. In my opinion, it is so important to set the right direction from the leadership based on the gospel. Another important thing is to see more and more people among us to be transformed and changed by the grace of God.

I largely agree with what Scazzero has written about our spiritual condition and the subsequent remedy. From my perspective, it seems as though he has largely drawn from the classic The Celebration of Discipline. There, the author Richard Foster advocates similar inward monk-like practices that Scazzero has put forth. Foster’s assertion is that we don’t necessarily need more intelligent or gifted people in our society, but rather deep people. I would say this applies especially to UBF. I can channel my inner monk and receive deep revelation from God about how I should pattern my life in order to be spiritually healthy. But the problem is that when I come in contact with a leader who espouses UBF’s core ideology, I often find that we fundamentally and vehemently disagree on many things. We like to champion our adherence to intellectual Bible study in UBF and tout the fact that we have many gifted teachers among us. Though we have spiritually deep individuals, the environment that UBF creates does not seem conducive to allowing these individuals to have a shared voice; those who are heard are mainly those who adhere, to the death, to the same old UBF heritage statements. How can healthy spirituality flourish in environment such as this?

For instance, after I spent significant time praying and meditating as to what God would have me focus on in this season of my life, I have recently been convicted that my main mission field is my home and my workplace. Thus my focus and convictions haves shifted from campus mission to these two areas. Why have I seen others who have taken up a similar stance become marginalized or denigrated for being ‘work or family centered’? Also, I do not plan to attend the summer conference because I am extremely busy and in general I do not like large conferences; I have experienced that I get much more out of attending smaller retreats without so much going on. I know that I will receive significant flack due to this decision. But why can’t leaders in UBF accept such decisions? It is because UBF’s core ideology is itself a source of unhealthy spirituality and it is continually pushing people away. Recently several young, spiritually gifted young men left our chapter due to being marginalized by the UBF brass for having different but valid viewpoints on ministry practices. No one has said anything about it, it’s just business as usual.

What I’m saying James is that while Scazzero’s direction sounds wonderful, how on earth can we implement this in UBF?

James wrote:

“When I came to ubf during my college days, I was fascinated with the inductive bible study led by M Sarah Barry and I was full of joy and thanksgiving. It was a pure joy to learn more about Jesus through bible study and we spent a lot of time in bible study. But gradually as the time passed by, I believe we put more emphasis on work and performance which could have resulted in joyless and tired Christian living.”

My experiences were similar. Bible study led me to encounter God in a life-changing way. But the constant emphasis on doing, doing, doing — measuring my spiritual condition by how much I was participating in evangelism and discipleship activities — eventually became a stumbling block, distracting from serious character issues that weren’t being addressed. I wasn’t being spiritually formed. These insights from Scazzero’s book were so important in helping me to see the shortcomings of my life and making necessary changes.

I agree that these insights can be an antidote to much of the unhealthy spirituality we’ve identified in ubf, at least at a personal level.

In my opinion, however, it would be a huge mistake for leaders to say that the best way to address the myriad problems in ubf is for each person to turn inward and focus on his or her own personal walk with God. The problems of authoritarianism and abuse are systemic, and leaders need to take decisive steps to address them at the organizational level. A new emphasis on emotional and spiritual health is sorely needed, but I fear that it can become just another technique that some leaders will use to spiritualize away the organizational problems and avoid making the tough choices that are needed to save the organization from internal collapse.

I agree with you James on that one. I found that I had to slow down so much and then actually stop ubf activities in order to journey inward. I had to get all the ubf voices out of my head so I could hear Jesus’ voice. And it has been an amazing journey!

In return, we love him back and love our neighbors. All of our activities should come from our love for God and our neighbor whether it is 1:1 bible study or personal witnessing.

We each have solitary monk within us and that will enrich our spirituality.

When I came to ubf during my college days, I was fascinated with the inductive bible study led by M Sarah Barry and I was full of joy and thanksgiving. It was a pure joy to learn more about Jesus through bible study and we spent a lot of time in bible study. But gradually as the time passed by, I believe we put more emphasis on work and performance which could have resulted in joyless and tired Christian living. I think we need to balance both of contemplation and work.

When I came to ubf during my college days, I was fascinated with the inductive bible study led by M Sarah Barry and I was full of joy and thanksgiving. It was a pure joy to learn more about Jesus through bible study and we spent a lot of time in bible study. But gradually as the time passed by, I believe we put more emphasis on work and performance which could have resulted in joyless and tired Christian living. I think we need to balance both of contemplation and work.

I agree with DavidW. Has this book modified your actions in ubf meetings or beliefs about the ubf heritage?

And in a broader sense, will ubf directors stop teaching that emotions are evil notions that are be suppressed? Will they stop teaching that healthy means “you’re getting fat”? Will they stop saying that spirituality is to be measured by the amount of discipline and loyalty you have?

It would have been nice to hear something about “emotionally healthy spirituality” during my time in ubf. Instead I just heard the 12 point heritage repeated endlessly.