Comments on: 12 Things UBF Taught Me (7) http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/24/12-things-ubf-taught-me-7/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/24/12-things-ubf-taught-me-7/#comment-9435 Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:24:27 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6541#comment-9435 @Joe,

“If you want to hold up the Apostle Paul as a model for supporting yourself and doing ministry at the same time, then please remember that Paul wasn’t married.”

Excellent point, and thanks for the reminder. Something I never understood was this, which most seem to have forgotten in ubf: SB is single. She never married. Why then are all ubf sheep required to go through the arranged marriage process?

“I have never seen a person who can actually support himself and plant a church and be a good spouse and parent at the same time.”

This is true. This is why church planting (or loosely “pioneering” in ubf terms) really has to be done by the whole local church body. Our church just went through that about a year ago. I was impressed with the open communication and community involvement in the effort. It was amazing how it all came together. Working together in that instance was beautiful because no one was in charge of it, dictating the outcome. Clearly the Spirit was leading, bringing about His renewal for many people.

Activity like this is SO refreshing and edifying. I experienced a lot of things in ubf, good and bad, but I cannot recall ever being refreshed and edified. In ubf I felt so drained and empty, but I feel so full now!

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/24/12-things-ubf-taught-me-7/#comment-9432 Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:15:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6541#comment-9432 @Chris,

“Brian, the recurrent theme in all of the UBF spiritual heritage point is this: UBF is not really about doing these things, but about manipulating and forcing others to do these things and making them feel guilty if they don’t.”

Correct. The higher up the “spiritual order” you go, the less you have to do. I experienced that the invisible guilt-trip increases however. As I did less and less (as I become a shepherd, then fellowship leader, then director) the gap between my reality and my perception of myself grew larger and larger. I claimed to be doing so much ubf activity, but the reality was that I was just pretending. My reports back to ubf were glory stories, which did not honestly tell the story of what we were doing.

I was told not to worry about this, but continue to be a “good example” and find ways to fluff up my numbers. I was told to have “one to one” with stuffed animals, for example, to avoid the shame of reporting “0” 1:1’s back to HQUBF. (btw I was so bad at manipulating other people that even my stuffed animals “ran away” :)

And so, yes, you were correct back in 2004 Chris, when you told me that I was living a special kind of ubf life as a director, a lifestyle that did not match the hamster wheel activity that most sheep and shepherds experienced. I denied it at the time, but that disconnect is one reason why I could so passionately defend the ubf heritage at that time. I claimed in 2004 that ubf was the best, and that I was free. In some sense, I was free form the daily magnifying glass that I had expereinced in Toledo for 16 years. It was foolish of me to claim my director life in Detroit had any resemblence to my sheep life back in Toledo.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/24/12-things-ubf-taught-me-7/#comment-9413 Thu, 25 Jul 2013 00:02:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6541#comment-9413 Last Sunday, a friend of mine (pastor of a local church we are partnering with) explained that, when he was attending seminary, most of the seminarians
* were married with children,
* studying full time, and
* serving as assistant pastors and staff in local congregations,
all at the same time.

The seminary conducted an in depth study and found that most of the seminarians were able to do two of these things pretty well, but no one could actually do all three. One of the three areas of life was sacrificed. In many cases it was the family.

If you want to hold up the Apostle Paul as a model for supporting yourself and doing ministry at the same time, then please remember that Paul wasn’t married.

I have never seen a person who can actually support himself and plant a church and be a good spouse and parent at the same time. Perhaps they can make it appear that they are doing all three pretty well for a while. But if you look at them closely, over time you will see a great deal of stress and unresolved conflict and relational problems taking their toll. It’s a recipe for disaster.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/07/24/12-things-ubf-taught-me-7/#comment-9400 Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:22:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6541#comment-9400 Brian, the recurrent theme in all of the UBF spiritual heritage point is this: UBF is not really about doing these things, but about manipulating and forcing others to do these things and making them feel guilty if they don’t. If you look carefully, then you will see that those at the bottom of the UBF hierarchical pyramid actually do a lot of these things. They earn their living by ordinary work, they go into the dormitories to “fish sheep” etc. But the higher you come in the hierarchy, the less they practice what they preach, and the more they demand of others. (Or in the words of the Bible “They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.”) A chapter director usually doesn’t do anything of the things in the heritage. E.g. my director lived from offering money with his family, he did not go fishing on the campus, he did not write or share his weekly testimony etc. etc. Samuel Lee himself never had an ordinary day job. He lived in his own house and his whole living was paid from offering money. He pushed others so hard to go fishing for the conference, but did not go himself. He told others to repent and write testimonies, but we never saw him repenting or sharing a testimony. He taught that everybody must have a personal shepherd, but he never accepted a personal shepherd above himself. This is very different from the life style of Apostle Paul. Paul really worked as a tentmaker, he did not push others to work as a tentmaker. I think that’s the general and crucial failure of UBF. They don’t just live an exemplary life, but force others to do the same as they do, telling them they will go to hell if they don’t. You can see this pattern in all of the spiritual heritage points, and though, as you pointed out, some of these points are not bad or wrong by themselves, forcing them onto others is what spoils every single one of them.

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