Comments on: The Woolly Mammoth in the Room http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9715 Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:25:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9715 As requested I abbreviated the name to HR.

]]> By: gc http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9702 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:32:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9702 John Y, you raise a valid point. I am anonymous for a reason as ‘gc’ so I ask Brian, Joe or Ben to abbreviate the name to initials in my post if possible. It was an oversight on my part since many UBF leaders already have their names published online as Brian alluded to.

As for my extra comment it was nothing against the messenger at all. It was against UBF system for using a woman specifically to give that message. I am not at all commenting on the women should be silent etc….that many people can address with Biblical references. Although it is not a Christian reference…..I appreciate women in the role of educating. One of my most favorite Biblical educators was NJ who was among the female initiates to pray at the wall in Israel many years ago. I know her personally and she calls a spade a spade.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9697 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:20:27 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9697 Hi David. I used your example to show how easily people find certain article evil or hateful though in my view there is nothing evil or hateful about them. I believe you can differentiate, but if you’re deeply involved in a group like UBF, you don’t differentiate. When you read only one “offensive” thing you are happy to have found a reason to dismiss everything alltogether. You lump any criticism and critic together, give them a label like “R-group”, and stop reading anything from them. Even Sarah Barry said she immediately deleted any emails coming from the “R-group” without reading them. I remember that while in UBF I read an article about UBF by a cult expert, and I totally dismissed the whole article as wrong and unspiritual at the time because because I found one sentence with info which was not 100% correct, and because of the “offensive” wording, like calling UBF missionaries inviting on the campus “recruiters”. (But today I think the article was spot on. And I think it’s ok to call UBF missionaries “recruiters” because they don’t just evangelize, they effectively recruit people for UBF. I think it’s ok if people call a spade a spade.) I also remember that one UBF friend of mine totally stopped reading the old rsqubf forum because he found one offensive comment. People know they should be better informed, but they find reasons to avoid it (“What you don’t know won’t hurt you”).

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9695 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:13:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9695 JohnY,

If someone is going to give a lecture at a conference where the material is made public, they probably should get used to having their name out there in cyberspace. And “world class leaders” should be able to handle some criticism.

]]> By: David Bychkov http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9693 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:55:25 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9693 Hi Chris. Actually I’ve never said that UBFriends is evil and full of hate. I only expressed my feelings regarding one particuliar article. May be i still was wrong but I thought I have to let you guys know what I feeling. Regarding entire site I said it is more destructive then constuctive lately. And btw I like things here more during few last days may be because of fresh people which came here.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9692 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:33:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9692 Brian, I believe there is still a lot of information control going on. They will tell people that UBFriends is “evil” and “full of hate”, and if even DB believes this is true, the UBFers will believe it as well. Even if someone is reading here, they will quickly find some comment that somehow “offends” them or sounds “unspiritual” to their taste (due to the mass and diversity of comments here), and so they happily conclude all of UBFriends and all criticism of UBF is like that and they decide to never visit again. You still must search actively for information, and many UBFers don’t do that because it is considered “unspiritual”. In the ICOC, any critical material, particularly on the Internet, was called “spiritual pornography”, so the members felt very bad and dirty when reading it. I believe similar mechanisms are at work in UBF.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9691 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:21:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9691 JohnY is right, not everone is fine with his full name being quoted on the Internet.

Regarding women delivering sermons in UBF, it’s really not something new. I remember 15 years ago they sometimes also had women as messengers (maybe not on the ISBC but on other conferences in Europe). UBF never had a dogmatic stance about this. Men are usually preferred, but they have no problems using women as messenger, chapter director (as in Canda) or even general director.

Like Brian I’m ok with this, the only problem is that they have no rules for when they take the Bible literally and when not. They use the Bible as a stone pit, taking only the stones that they like and then axing them until they fit.

]]> By: John Y http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9688 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:31:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9688 Hey fellas, I’m finding it pretty offensive that specific names are being put out there in cyberspace in ways that are not very flattering, whether or not they happened to give a ISBC message that fit your stamp of approval, or in reference to specific events that we may not have the full knowledge of what is being referred to. Most likely, well-meaning individuals that you all directly name or indirectly not name will be hurt by the things said on this website over the last couple days, or that someone is talking about them on a public forum. Big downer to me. Makes me hope they don’t read UBFriends for that reason. Can we raise the “friendship” level of this site a bit? Give me a SHOT please.

]]> By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9685 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:07:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9685 Hmmm, yes I think you are correct, gc. Well then scratch that “one new thing”.

]]> By: gc http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9683 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:32:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9683 Brian, you forgot HR at one of the other conferences – I can’t remember….anyway, it was on the Samaritan woman. (Would it be any other way in UBF?)

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/07/the-woolly-mammoth-in-the-room/#comment-9681 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:13:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6653#comment-9681 My (subjective) sense is that younger leaders (both foreign and indigenous) want to openly address the issues of the past, while older leaders (the “ancestors”) who have “more clout” and influence are generally not in favor of doing so. We can only wait and see.

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