Comments on: Sin Gathers; God Scatters http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-11000 Sun, 22 Sep 2013 15:23:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-11000 agreed; it was partly a rhetorical question, mainly giving them dose of own medicine:) (too little practical faith in God, big ones?)

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10994 Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:45:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10994 @Mark: “Were the middle men (now leaders) of too little faith to send/let anyone go out?” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10991

In my opinion, everything we do by default, even as longstanding Christian people and leaders, is the opposite of what God intends, because of our fallen sinful depravity.

Every bone in my body wants to keep people in my church or fellowship. When I feel this strongly, I pray that God helps me to let them go wherever they please with the spirit of freedom in Christ (2 Cor 3:17), and by the sovereign blowing of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:8).

I think that UBF Bible teaching often uses Old Testament thinking that ubf people should gather around the UBF center, as the Israelites gathered around the tabernacle/temple. Or using the Isa 2:1-5 passage to impose on UBFers that just as the Israelites streamed into Jerusalem, then UBFers should stream to the main ubf center or chapter. This only centralizes the power to a few senior ubf leaders who firmly and strongly believe that they should have the upper hand in the church. There is really no New Testament suggestion of this that I can think of.

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10993 Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:45:06 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10993 ‘Is God scattering people from UBF, because some leaders in UBF are trying to hold and control people excessively?’ yes, absolutely true..

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10992 Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:43:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10992 by the way, those who have controlled shall be controlled..

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10991 Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:29:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10991 feels like a ghost town of few comments lately, but it could be the calm before the storm (or the eye of the storm before the other side whirls by); anyway, like jimi hendrix sang: ‘i am what i am, thank God’ (i’ll seize this opp to speak)

‘The sin of every man—including Christians—is to build their own tower of Babel (Gen 11:4). They gather and centralize the power and authority to themselves and to their oligarchy and inner circle. This inadvertently subjugates, binds, disempowers and emasculates those around them, since they are expected to mainly do as they are told.’ yep Dr Ben, you summed it
& my lifelong goal is to battle such (just the equalitarian social worker in me, as well as free in Christ believer)

sometimes i think we blame too much on founder when his proteges are part to blame: despite reprehensible battle tactics didn’t he at least try to send some out (though admittedly he made the ctr a magnet to bring more in);
were the middle men (now ldrs) of too little faith to send/let anyone go out?

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10972 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 13:24:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10972 Posing questions is indeed a good strategy. But if the author “tips his hand” by revealing much of what he thinks before he actually poses the question, then readers don’t have much incentive to answer, because they feel the question has already been answered.

I love the way that one of the primary authors on Jesus Creed (a scientist named RJS) uses questions. Whenever she writes an article, she provides a good deal of background material to frame the issues, and then she poses two or three difficult questions whose answers are not obvious. When she poses these questions, I get the sense that she already has begun to form her own preliminary answers, but she hasn’t tipped her hand, and she is willing to be swayed. As readers chime in, she actively learns from them, and they learn from her. When that happens, it is exciting and edifying. Of course, there are many ways to foster online dialogue, but I found her approach to be an especially effective one.

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By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10970 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 13:18:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10970 sorry, i prefer to just state what i think:)
(after all the world always does: gain at any cost is good right? wrong!
& religion too often does: the earth/man is the center of the universe right? wrong!)

guess it’s my turn; anyway i may be right..

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10969 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:57:33 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10969 @Joe: [If anybody out there in cyberspace is a new reader of UBFriends, here is a helpful hint. If you are reading any article by Ben Toh, and you see a question in italics, the answer to that question is “Yes.”] – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#sthash.nmNVGw18.dpuf

Oh No, Joe. You’re exposed me! I was reading in many places about good communication that you should pose questions rather than make absolute declarative opinionated statements.

So while I am writing and I notice that I just made an affirmative statement, I simply convert it into a question, so as to express that I would like to know what you think and have a dialogue, rather than just simply state what I think. I guess my secret’s out.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/09/20/sin-gathers-god-scatters/#comment-10968 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:25:18 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=6983#comment-10968 Ben, thanks for this article. I don’t know if God is intervening to scatter the flock, or if the scattering is just a natural consequence of bad shepherding as people come to their senses and exercise their God-given freedom of choice. Either way, based on what I’m hearing, there’s a whole lotta scattering going on.

[If anybody out there in cyberspace is a new reader of UBFriends, here is a helpful hint. If you are reading any article by Ben Toh, and you see a question in italics, the answer to that question is “Yes.”]

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