Comments on: Critique My Matthew Sermon http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12344 Mon, 03 Feb 2014 00:47:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12344 And then a few months later, after that second “message training” I realized I knew nothing about preaching…Thank God for ex-ubfers who stepped in and gave me a reality check for my messages!

Message fail

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12343 Mon, 03 Feb 2014 00:43:46 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12343 No one in ubf or outsiders observing this discussion should think that Joe is mocking ubf. Here is proof.

I found an old document I wrote in 2006 after “message training” in Toledo ubf. Of course I wrote this document but everything here was dictated to me verbally. I regurgitated it and emailed it back to Toledo and even shared my “lessons learned” at a meeting. Was I stupid for doing this? Sure, I take responsibility. Are there exceptions to this in ubf? Sure, but this demonstrates what is typical of ubf training.

I felt so very empty and angry when I wrote this, emailed it back and shared it. In a future “message training” this “lessons learned” was referenced because I apparently had not learned the lessons well enough. I was asked to write a second “lessons learned” but I refused.

Again, if you’ve never been through ubf Sunday message training or ubf conference message training, you likely won’t believe me or Joe.

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3/21/2006 – Lessons learned through delivering the Sunday message in Toledo UBF.

Sh.Brian Karcher

1. The value of memorizing scripture. This time I was able to memorize the whole passage and recite it many times. This memorization gave me a better than usual sense of the passage and helped me to have God’s word in my heart.

2. The need for personal application in message. I realized I had gotten into the habit of creating a message by taking good ideas and concepts and putting them together. I pray to remember to make the Sunday messages personal.

3. The value of collaboration. The Sunday message was much richer when I was able to work with Dr.Paul, Sh.John Wilson and the messenger team. This working together was refreshing.

4. The value of long term vision. As I walked through the center and saw how God is blessing Toledo coworkers in many ways, I was reminded of the days when I first came to Bible study. At that time, working every Saturday to build the center seemed so long. I was encouraged to see the long term vision when beginning a ministry.

5. The value of spiritual disciplines. Since coming to Detroit, we had nearly lost all sense of basic spiritual discipline. More than any event that happened to us, this is the main source of struggle. We pray to rebuild the spiritual disciplines of Bible study, testimony sharing and family prayer and worship together.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12342 Sun, 02 Feb 2014 23:11:26 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12342 OK, I now have clear biblical support for posting my satire about UBF message training.

“When God has given you time to recover from the abuse and trouble and harsh servitude that you had to endure, you can amuse yourselves by taking up this satire, a taunt against the king of Babylon…”

(Isaiah 14:3-4, The Message)

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12283 Sat, 01 Feb 2014 10:36:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12283 @Joe, what you described to Shepherd Brian is unfortunately not untrue. I carried out “such message trainings” myself and likely royally and permanently messed up the speaking cadence of several people (for which I am very very sorry)!!!

It is definitely better to laugh about it than to cry or become bitter. I definitely prefer the former, and in fact do it often, likely very often, if not close to all the time.

But I realize that when I laugh (my favorite activity), “some people” find it so offensive that they just tune out, feel sledgehammered, and become inwardly very angry. They likely interpret my laughter as mocking, disrespect and making fun of them (UBF). They likely do not accept my insistence that I am not disrespecting or mocking or making fun of anyone, but simply dealing with it in my own way, which is primarily by laughing, when addressing annoying or infuriating UBFisms.

Even though what you described is not untrue, I think that people are trying very very hard to be nicer, more accommodating, less authoritarian, less rude, more humble, less insistent or demanding, and trying to listen more and gather consensus, even if longstanding habits die hard, or perhaps may never entirely die in my/their lifetime.

IMHO, such efforts at improvement is clearly because UBF worldwide has taken a hit significantly throughout the world (which I think has humbled many even if no one will admit it), with more and more people speaking up, beginning from motherland.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12281 Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:10:05 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12281 If I offended anyone by this, I am sorry. I did not mean to offend but merely to blow off steam and laugh a little. It’s my irreverent sense of humor; I like to press against the boundaries and sometimes cross them. The fact is that as a messenger I experienced lots of things like this. Outside of the Chicago sphere, those who “trained” me generally did so with kindness and respect. But I did experience things like this, and saw others experience it as well.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12279 Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:03:00 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12279 And those who “trained” me are still leaders in ubf and show no sign of changing, so Joe’s statements reflect ubf of 2014.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12278 Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:02:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12278 Ben, we all know that Joe is not making these things up. He is not mocking. His advice above is literally a summary of everything I was taught in ubf “message training” for 24 years, from 1987 to 2011. If there is any sincere advice I would now give to any “shepherd” in ubf it would be: DO NOT under any circumstances agree to be a ubf messenger. The abuse I speak of mostly happened during messenger training.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12277 Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:00:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12277 OK, fair enough. But is my sarcastic parody an accurate reflection of the way things were, say, 5 or 10 years ago?

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12275 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:35:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12275 @Joe. Realistic? I think that because of much so negative press, aided and abetted by cyberspace, and the very real and painful exodus of so many longstanding indigenous leaders (after decades of being “endlessly loved and served”), the top brass are likely to be a lot more cautious to not come across as authoritarian (trying to seek consensus), and to be a lot more accommodating (“nicer”), and much less condescending.

So because of “some intentional changes” that are happening among the leadership, younger people (unfamiliar with the past) might perceive your satirical letter to Shepherd Brian to be a scathing, mocking exaggeration.

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By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12274 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:16:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12274 Joe, the only unrealistic element here is the idea that any shepherd would present such a sermon to his director. In UBF you are only asked to prepare a message when you have been brainwashed long enough and proven that your style is conformant. The idea that a UBF messenger would accidentally forget the “one word” is ridiculous. That would be just like ending a prayer without the words “I pray in Jesus’ name.” Things like that were so burned in our minds by endless repetition that we couldn’t even dream of doing something so radically different.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12273 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:02:21 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12273 Some younger people might think this is an exaggeration. Ben, is this realistic?

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12271 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:51:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12271 This is so shockingly real and painful to read. Sadly, it would be too hard for most if not all UBF lifers to read without feeling mocked. Likely and unfortunately, many simply do not know or realize just how much they have “humiliated” and “stunted” their native disciples through their “message trainings,” while genuinely thinking that they are sacrificially and sincerely helping them.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12270 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12270 LOL! Thanks for making my day Joe! Indeed, that is *exactly* the feedback I would have gotten during “message training” a few years ago. And I would have had to stay up all night to prove that I “got one word”.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12269 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:35:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12269 Sorry, I’m being very naughty today.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12268 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:33:37 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12268 Dear Shepherd Brian,

Thank you for posting this heart-moving message. I believe that God is raising you as a great Bible messenger like Billy Graham. Someday all messengers from Chicago and Toledo and everywhere can go to Detroit and learn from you.

I have just a few small comments.

First, the message is not Bible-based. Please make sure that you explain each verse carefully.

Second, your understanding of the beatitudes is not biblical. The blessed ones are those who meditate on God’s words day and night. The truly blessed ones are those who fight the spiritual battle as one-to-one Bible teachers. Please revise that part.

Third, please include more of your personal testimony about how God called you out of your sinful and meaningless life to become a Bible teacher. One woman forgot God’s grace upon her life and became like a mental patient and got hit by a car. We must remember God’s grace.

Fourth, please include your vision and prayer topics for Bible Detroit and Bible Michigan. Tell us your ten-year plan. Tell us about your sheep and all their sin problems so we can pray for them.

Fifth, please include personal repentance topics.

Sixth, divide the message into sections and tell us your one word.

To help you with your message preparation, I am sending you Dr. Lee’s manuscript. Please study and memorize it until God’s word comes into your deep heart.

Please send me your revised message so I can check it tomorrow. And practice delivering the message ten times in front of the dummy in your living room.

God bless your struggle to be an excellent servant of God’s word.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/01/31/critique-my-matthew-sermon/#comment-12266 Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:50:19 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7483#comment-12266 Thanks, Brian. It is always a delight to reflect on the Sermon of sermons. I agree that this sermon is not a “higher moral law” but the gospel itself and the very embodiment of the person of Christ.

Viewing this sermon from the perspective of the law will only crush us, for who does not deal with anger and be pronounced a murderer, and who does not deal with lust and be pronounced an adulterer.

Yet this sermon from the very heart of Christ gives us rest and peace, freedom and joy from the Spirit that transforms our hearts.

Two years ago, I wrote/copied this from ML-Jones’ introduction to the Sermon on the Mount, which you might have a few things to quibble about: http://westloop-church.blogspot.com/2012/04/sermon-on-mount-martyn-lloyd-jones.html

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