Rest Unleashed: The Raven Narratives

I feel like writing 120 books :)

In writing my second book, I asked these questions that you pose here:

” I like the question Cora asked you at the end, “Why did you stay so long?” When I look back, I ask myself that too and the answer I come up with is fear.”

Why did I stay for 24 years? In my book I describe how I wanted fame and glory. Fear has little to do with my staying so long. Basically I stayed because I saw no way out and was entangled with all the training. But mainly I wanted to be famous.

My first bible study was to study the entire book of Genesis. My shepherds promised me that “my name would be great” and that I would be “famous like Abraham”. So I didn’t look for a way out.

I got what I deserve though. I am now “infamous”. Those who seek self glory and fame typically end up in infamy.

I just finished your book. I absolutely loved it. You wrote in a very fatherly manner. I could sense your heart as someone with good intentions, which I believe a lot of ubf-ers have, but good intentions are not enough. Thank you for sharing your story. It resonated a lot with my story. I’ve experience the “unbalanced ministry” for 4 years. But as you write, without that “unbalanced ministry” experience you wouldn’t be where you are now (there is a positive point in the negative experience). I like the question Cora asked you at the end, “Why did you stay so long?” When I look back, I ask myself that too and the answer I come up with is fear. The only reason I could leave was because I had a support group: my parents (who were going through the exact same thing in their chapter, if they hadn’t I don’t know what would have happened) and a peer who told me that he respected me as a believer and believed the Holy Spirit was in me. Without those people who edified me I would not be where I am now. (Actually, at that time I was talking to Ben and he introduced me to ubfriends. I then left a comment and my ex-chapter director read it, knew it was me and ridiculed me without addressing the content of my statements.) Four years of my Christian life were lived under fear. And now I pray no one else has to experience that. I hope that ubfriends can be a support group for people going through the same things.
I left my ex chapter only to join a different UBF chapter, but I am lovin’ it. I critique and question everything. Our slogan is “living out the gospel in life and community.” Basically it is a bridge between our spiritual life and physical life, our bio and zoe, just like your bridge community church.
You mentioned a lot of valid points: no PRACTICAL support for members, (where does the tithe go?), no serving the community/neighbors/family, no friendship in marriage, no dating, no accountability. All these topics could be a book in or itself. Actually, at the past Easter Conference we had, I realized that there are current UBF members who are aware of what’s going on and do their best to live according to the gospel of the JC and not UBF. There are current UBF members who read and comment on this site. I pray that there would be more unity between people who think this way, whether in UBF or not (I also think this is not just a UBF thing, but (works-performance based life) is a weapon of Satan to attack the body of Christ. I know many missionary kids and Pastor kids from other ministries.) I really believe the way to combat these unbalanced ministries is through raising a third culture/support group, chapters that are willing to listen and support. I don’t want people to have to go through 29 years of this ministry before they wake up. But they need to know they are supported and respected. To conclude, I loved your book and you inspire me to write my own story, but there were a couple typos that should be edited. I could tell you what pages they are on if you want. You book really exceeded any expectations I had for it. Bravo. Praise God.

How can we extend forgiveness to a group of people? Is that possible? What would reconciliation look like?

I fully resonate with you and James Danaher about the utmost importance of forgiveness as God’s primary expression of unconditional love, endless grace and limitless mercy to us.

It came to me as I was reading Danaher that we Christians often fail to extend forgiveness and instead communicate punitive retribution in various forms, degrees and expressions. This breaks unity. More importantly it distorts and even negates the gospel of good news through Christ, the cross and the resurrection.

I was about to buy your book until I got it free on Kindle. Sorry about that. Interestingly, yours is the first book I am reading on Kindle and I actually like it! I look forward to reading Narrative 2 and 3.

it brought back memories of religious directives:
‘depend on God’ (like ‘don’t ask our help’)
‘just do it by faith’ (like ‘trust our idea not your own’)

augh, forget the symbolism-the point is: once money is accumulated it is beneficial to have less people hierarchically entitled to it:)

money ruins, blessing refreshes

All this spiritual abuse can start already long before MbF. But you’re right that the interference of UBF into the marriage, the marriage life and family after MbF is a particular problem in itself. Just want to clarify that the abuse can be just as horrible even before MbF since most of it is *spiritual* abuse. It’s not interference into your marriage life, but interference into your relationship with God. And that can be just as horrible and even worse. The worst spiritual abuse also happens when you’re weak and vulnerable and insecure. That’s often before marriage. After marriage, you’re usually more stable and the spiritual component of the abuse cannot affect your so much. However, it can still destroy your marriage and family. I have seen this often enough.

Why we left CCCM

But NOTHING has changed even in forests chapter which is St. Louis at the moment. Forests is still experiencing the love-bombing because he has not made a full lifelong commitment to ubf and has not gone through mbf.

We all know that after mbf is when the spiritual abuse often kicks into high gear. That is when the neglect of family occurs, where people leave their 3 month olds at a stranger’s house for babysitting during Sunday service when their regular babysitter cancels. That is when husband and wife fight on the way to conferences and then don’t talk to each other for a week. That is when you cry inside for months on end every Sunday because you feel the pressure to not even talk to your wife during Sunday service much less sit next to her, and you know you will NEVER sit with your family with your children in church.

That is when you and your wife are two ships passing in the night. That is when you leave your wife in a family crisis to go to a leader’s meeting. That is when you sit by in silent confusion as over 20 families who are your closest friends suffer the trauma of the painful ubf exit process, when you want to do something but are so helpless and bound by your own mind you don’t know what to do except sit in a pit of despair.

Forests, glad to hear you are not experiencing what most of us here experienced. Are you a fellowship leader? Did you already marry by faith? Are you a conference or Sunday level messenger?

Until those things happen, you might not experience much abuse in ubf.

After going through marriage by faith, and then immediately becoming a fellowship leader, and going through conference messenger training and Sunday messenger training THEN the spiritual abuse happens, and it kicks into high gear if and when you then display any hint of questioning the ubf authority or showing disloyalty or disobedience of some kind.

After I got arranged married (mbf) and then was a fellowship leader, guess what happened when I went to my brother’s wedding? I was accused of doing Satan’s work when I got back, even though I returned on Sunday. In a private meeting with only fellowship leaders, I was told to “confess” I had done Satan’s work by going to the wedding with my wife. I did not “confess” but did imply that it was wrong of me to do this. How stupid I was!

And don’t get me started on ubf “messenger training”….

Well, I can testify it has been an issue as long as Samuel Lee was ruling the UBF, and I believe it continues to be an issue in many UBF chapters. In my time it was all about showing “absolute obedience”, and missing even one SWS (or any other of the weekly meetings) was intepreted as a sign of not obeying absolutely and being unspiritual. The last time I missed a meeting, that was reason enough for my chapter leader to intervene and cancel my marriage.

It’s good to hear that things somewhat changed now 10 years after the death of Samuel Lee at least in your chapter, but as long as there is no official condemnation of the abuse and teachings of the past, and as long as the “heritage of Samuel Lee” is still officially help up as the ideal, the problem is far from being solved.

By obvious support I’m talking about prayer. If anyone has gone through hardship and difficulties they know that prayer topics are passed around and everyone prays. (or do they?)

It is fundamental that in addition to prayer a person receive direct personal contact. I believe most people are aware that to help the development and growth of a baby you need to take care of it. You need to feed it, change it, talk to it and hold it. You can massage the arms and legs etc….these are things as parents we take for granted.

The same rule applies to anyone of us when we are left broken. Telling me you will pray for me from a list that will find its way into the trash pile is not comforting. Have some compassion and engage with anyone who needs your support – right here and now. It seems so easy when we talk about the new Bible student. Love bombing of potential new recruits is a favorite hobby for many. But being there for your immediate peer does not seem to be natural any longer.

I would agree that the most important relationship is between the believer and Jesus. But, we are a community – are we not? Therefore, when another shepherd or missionary needs you do not judge their faith. Have compassion on them as Jesus would and engage them as people – not the prayer topic list.

Sorry, to be lecturing, but I recently had fellowship with several families from back home. They all did exactly what I am talking about. In fact two families made priority to visit me and my wife during the past couple of years.

For some chapters nowadays it is no longer a big issue, but many older members can testify that missing a Sunday at UBF was a sign of misplaced priorities and questionable faith. It gets so confusing because the origins of a Sunday in UBF permitted members to attend family churches (They would often be held in the middle of the afternoon, 3:00 or 3:30, something like that, after people had already attended their own church.) After some time they decided on a common time for worship service which became problematic. Depending on the chapter your priority and attendance was yet another measurement of your faith, that is commitment to UBF and not to Jesus.

It is important for all younger members reading here that indeed many changes have been made. However, most of the contributors here have been deeply affected by practice and values that were in effect prior to any mass change among ministry directors. We are now 2014, but many of us joined anywhere between 1980s – early 2000. In addition to leadership changes it is important to note the generation as well. That being said, the bottom line remains the legacy. As long as there is a decline in global membership in UBF you are going to hear about the heritage and “Go Back to the Bible!!” It is a last cry to stimulate the same revival that has become nostalgia (or the good ol’days) for so many.

As for leaving, I go home about once every two months and miss sws for that. It hasn’t been an issue. I plan on going to a wedding of a friend in June. Also has not been an issue.

I just say “ubf is a facade”.

Those slides from Germany are a great example of how ubf works. On many occasions, I’ve shown that kind of stuff to leaders and presented my objections. Again and again, they have acted in a sympathetic manner, saying that they don’t agree with it either. And they shrug their shoulders and say that they have no power or ability to do anything about it. Privately, they have all disavowed some of these teachings and, and the same time, have washed their hands of responsibility. This is why I have said that all of ubf’s leaders have disavowed ubf.

Christians who think that pyramid style multiplication was what Jesus meant are sadly mistaken and woefully confused about Jesus’ teachings. Such a scheme will never work and in fact is illegal in many places when applied to a money-making scheme.

This “teaching material” is atrocious… check out my review of the rare ubf teaching slides. It is really really uncommon to find such documented teaching from ubf available publicly.

My job as a ubf critic is easy, just point people to their own material.

This comment of yours stood out to me:

“If a marriage in UBF is in fact fulfilling it is most likely because you are not applying all of the lifestyle of ministry into your married life. A fulfilling marriage comes from making the effort with your spouse and children, without neglect.”

I can say that my own arranged marriage in ubf is now beginning to be fulfilling– and we celebrate our 20th anniversary this year. We are considering a marriage vows renewal at our new church. We will throw out our rings and get new ones.

From our wedding in 1994 until about 2003 (first 9 or 10 years) our marriage was not fulfilling in the husband/wife/mother/father sense. We didn’t sit together at worship service. We barely saw each other due to so many ubf meetings. We complied with the unseen pressure to be “co-workers” and “mission centered”. Our house was constantly intruded upon by “serving guests”. Our budget was continually beat up by “Friday serving” and “offering”.

In 2003 or so, when we “pioneered” Detroit, we suddenly had to face each other. The first thing we did was to try to be “all in” for ubf– doing everything “by faith” to form a “house church” that 1st year. Then we just looked at each other and stopped– stopped everything except having a 1 hour Sunday service and keeping face at conferences. I had to spin tall tales of glory to hide the hell we then faced for about 3 years (I won’t go into deals here, but 2007 to 2010 was 3 years of hell in Detroit).

But since we both decided to leave ubf behind in 2011, the past 3 years have been utterly amazing! We are much more at peace and we are getting to know each other and our kids. We turned our “worship service room” into a family room, complete with 2 gaming systems, pictures of us at Disney land on the wall and a huge flatscreen TV where the podium was. And we have zero guilt! We are so happy now!

My wife and I are going on dates, struggling through the messy process of learning to love each other, and finding ways to overcome all the obstacles that have grown up between us over the past 20 years.

So while I don’t tell anyone to leave ubf or stay in ubf, I loudly say DO NOT GET MARRIED BY FAITH. Run far away from any such notion and don’t look back. Even if it means getting kicked out of ubf, just don’t do MbF.

About the book and author: I presently have not read it, but have expressed intention to purchase the book at a later time. Thankfully, bigbear has numerously hinted at insights into his personal life so that I may anticipate the comprehensive story.

@forestsfailyou: The book review is quite a nice summary to stimulate interest. But, it was a small (understandable) failing to highlight the earlier dialogue between you and BK. You need to be clear first to yourself and to God what your intentions are. If things are unclear to you than communication results as it did. I know from personal dialogues you are still “in” UBF and not “out”. Although, I never sway one way or another, remember spiritual discernment. Nothing in ministry happens for no reason, and marriage has been a snare to many people. In life marriage is not to be taken lightly, more so in a ministry like UBF.

On the premise of marriage for this article I will say that some UBF chapters are open and changing etc…but for the most part both explicit/implicit functions exist to direct everyone in the right attitude and behaviour as expected by long standing elders. When you are single you are well trained to communicate first with senior shepherds and brothers and sisters apart or as supervised. Theology and practice guides us into the only function of our Christian duty – that is to be role-model Bible teachers and shepherds.

Once married, how can the role-model Bible teacher maintain the standards expected? They can’t…at least not without a cost to married life or their public reputation among the community. If you make mission (the ideal) your priority, you fail your family life. If you take important time for family than you become “family-centered” and reject the best position Jesus has called you to. It is an exhausting reality that married shepherds find themselves in.

But, we already knew all of this when we were single. Did you have a brother or sister whose wedding was in your home town? Many will insist that you mustn’t attend. How about a weekend visit to your family? Those with strong faith will abandon the chance to see their parents and siblings for the sake of serving God on God’s terms by keeping the UBF worship services. It should not become a surprise when we do not look to our spouse or children, but to our Bible teachers or sheep in the list of top priorities.

Most directors and elders will stand their ground and hold to convictions that you are either strong in faith or family-centered. However, there are some who will ignite and demand, “I never asked you to neglect family! You perceived everything in this way and you were in control of all personal decisions. You could have tended to your family needs.” Yes, we all could tend to the needs of the family – but is it always worth the cost of public rebuke and shame?

All this to say that bigbear is indeed correct when he emphasizes that family must come first over ministry. To hell with being judged by the community for being family-centered. I would rather be madly in love with my wife and children than to be indebted to the community of hate-mongers. If a marriage in UBF is in fact fulfilling it is most likely because you are not applying all of the lifestyle of ministry into your married life. A fulfilling marriage comes from making the effort with your spouse and children, without neglect.

For the record to any hardliner who reads my words – yes, I am still in ministry. But, do not expect me to bend on matters of spouse and children. God has been with my wife, children and I through many struggles and difficulties while only a handful of scattered co-workers have come to greet us in person and email to pray for us. My wife’s home chapter has been amazing – God’s blessing to us. However, I had until recently felt very isolated and alone from all of my long standing relationships in ministry back home. So, after experiencing difficulties many times without the obvious support from the community than I naturally leave all matters between God, me, my wife and children. Family comes before ministry – always.

Sorry to everyone if I am longwinded, but it has been so long to speak up. I cannot commit to daily interaction at the moment. I love you, God bless you all!

“The marriage question has been at the forefront of discussions with nearly everyone I know about UBF. Yes, UBF marriages tend to last, but are they fulfilling? The answer seemed unattainable from missionaries and leaders. This is who I am. This is why I bought his book.”

Yes marriage by faith has been both the #1 mystery and question the entire 50+ years of ubf and the #1 holy grail, most sought after “prize” of ubf shepherds and missionaries. Sure MbF worked out in numerous cases (as Ben will surely point out yet again soon :). But what about when it didn’t work out? There are many cases in which MbF has not worked out. And even when it does, your question Michael is valid “Are the marriages fulfilling?”

I hope many more buy and read Andrew’s book. His story expresses the pathos of most former ubf members. I’ve tended to focus on the logos and ethos approaches to my journey of recovery, so Andrew’s book was inviting to me to simply listen to the emotional approach.