Comments on: It’s more fun in the Philippines – Part 1

By: gc

gc — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 01:12:27 +0000

Forests, good series and beginning. We spoke on the phone before things finalized. I am happy to hear that everything went well and that you really did experience the Holy Spirit when you visited Philippines. I agree (from your comment in 2nd article) that this opener is a little negative in tone, but reveals what many of us have also experienced and can confirm. Your chapter director sounds like he is building you up to build himself up. These events were out of his hands because you talked to others in the ministry and broke spiritual order. But what can he do? Not very much, because an argument would cause consequences he has chosen to avoid. Anyway, he blessed you which is important. However, in my experience that “upper hand” of blessing should be scrutinized and treated with caution. In the end you live before God and what I liked about our conversation was your attention to please God and not necessarily the members of UBF. What leaders don’t want to understand is that following Jesus is not so much a disrespect to the leaders as much as it is a respect to God. If we follow leaders without questions or without even thinking about things in/for our lives we are not submitting to God at all, but rather submitting to man. As you said, you already bought the ticket – so – your director no longer had any power at that point to decide that you attend or not.

By: MJ Peace

MJ Peace — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:42:24 +0000

What a cliffhanger! I want to hear the rest of the story. But honestly, we all know why it’s more fun in the Philippines… because Filipinos know how to have fun, party and enjoy themselves. It’s a characteristic trait present in most Filipinos and so is a sense of humor. It’s in our blood:)

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 03:07:06 +0000

Brian, I forgot about the excellent “elephant tether” story from Gittin’s book “Reading the Clouds.” But the story that touched me from his book was about the baby polar bear who grew up in a London zoo and did not know how to be a polar bear when he grew up and died tragically: http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/08/30/a-story-that-speaks-to-life/

By: BK

BK — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 02:36:49 +0000

Forests, the “coercion” I speak of is what I call the “elephant tether”. You are an “elephant”-like person, so no one would likely forcefully try the tether you. You are too independent minded. So you need an elephant tether to be controlled.

Anthony Gittins speaks of such a thing better than I can:

“Elephants in captivity can be restrained very cheaply. If a baby elephant is tethered it will soon discover its limitations and not resist the tether. Though it grows to be amazingly strong, as long as it remains tethered each day or night, it will never realize its true power. The kingdom proclaimed by Jesus is modeled on radical equality, and the Spirit who renews the face of the earth is calling us to be transformed rather than tethered. We have no business trying to tether the Spirit, and God’s Spirit will surely not tether the faithful, but will lead them to enjoy great and God-given strength.” -–Anthony J. Gittins, Reading the Clouds, loc. 626

I expound on this thought in my book (which I will be sending you soon as promised)

“Undue influence is influence by which a person is induced to act otherwise than by their own free will or without adequate attention to the consequences. The word “undue” is important in this definition. When some force is undue, that force is unwarranted or inappropriate because it is excessive or disproportionate to the object of that force. Sometimes that force is actually a weak force, like the tether on an adult elephant that had existed since the elephant was young. The power of undue religious influence may not be in its coercion but in its perception. Such influence may be carried out not by actual force, but by perceived force or imagined consequences.”

Rest Unleashed: The Raven Narratives

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 01:57:57 +0000

Additionally I agree with everything you have said here. They will never have what they want from me.

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 01:56:04 +0000

I speak gently when it comes to some of the events here. Be assured that if they are “controlling” me they are pretty awful controllers. The main way of coercion seems to be only allowing one choice with a combination of ignorance of the end goal on the part of the member. I see neither in me, but I know that you cannot know my true thoughts behind a computer screen. Cs Lewis once said that the way to tell if you are in a dream is simple, in a dream you cannot analyze what is happening. I am still questioning, still analyzing, still making my own choices- making friends along the way.

By: BK

BK — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 01:21:41 +0000

I’m glad to hear your story of this trip, forests. I think you can see more clearly now than ever the contrast between a Spirit-led, Christian ministry and the ubf-led, heritage ministry. There is just no comparison.

I am also glad that we can see real-time, publicly how ubf directors operate. Notice the contrived manipulation of events to produce loyalty to ubf under the guise of “God’s will”. All the weird scenarios were not merely poor communication, but intentional manipulation by your chapter director to spin the events to get what he wants — your “marriage by faith”.

One word of warning: Don’t fall for the “we’ll make you a missionary” trick. That worked on me to keep me another 10 years in ubf as a ubf loyalist. You mentioned “Paul saw me as a missionary. His definition of missionary meant anyone visiting a foreign country for some Christian purpose.” I doubt that is his definition. Korean chapter directors in ubf would certainly define “missionary” in terms of being sent by ubf.

So on one hand I am glad to hear you got to experience a redeemed ubf chapter in the Philippines. On the other hand, your report sparks PTSD-like trauma in me as I recall all the bulls–t games Korean ubf directors play. They only have one goal in mind: make you into a ubf loyalist.

Nothing in your report surprises me; all I can say is “been there, done that”.