Comments on: Who’s Talking about ubfriends?

By: BK

BK — Fri, 02 May 2014 00:12:53 +0000

Just a note to anyone who doesn’t understand what I just said. I use the word “bashing” here in the ubf-speak sense, where “bashing = critically analyzing life events without approval or input from a ubf shepherd”.

My second book includes a short glossary of ubf-speak. Some of us former members put together a long version, which amounts to about 50 book-size pages so that we could interpret what ubf people are saying. I’m glad almost no one here on ubfriends uses ubf-speak.

By: BK

BK — Thu, 01 May 2014 22:16:36 +0000

My first book is mainly my life story and dedicated to my father. My second book is nearly ready to publish. My parents painted all the pictures.

This second book is dedicated to all the families in ubf and will contain a lot of ubf heritage bashing. Ubf needs to be bashed.

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Thu, 01 May 2014 20:56:12 +0000

Mj I have read both books. They both contain beautiful love stories amidst strange and binding UBF practices. Paul was correct “Love never fails.”

By: big bear

big bear — Thu, 01 May 2014 19:48:05 +0000

Mj peace…never read the books about the slaves..not speaking for bk here…but never wrote book to bash UBF but tell a love story of God grave and to promote healing and change
…please review our books after read….you might be pleasantly surprised…many in UBF told me privately it has helped them

By: MJ Peace

MJ Peace — Thu, 01 May 2014 19:21:19 +0000

Big Bear and BK, I haven’t read your books yet. I will very soon though. But have you seen the movie/ read the book, “The Help”? In this book there were a group of slaves wrote down their stories about what they had to deal with in the south. (The book is fiction, though). There were atrocious stories, but there were also some positive ones. I wish there was a book about UBf that would encompass that. It seems like there are two spectrums when dealing with UBf. Making a museum out of it, putting it on a pedestal as the ultimate ministry (and never questions any of its practices) or completely denouncing it and wanting it completely destroyed (I am not saying either of you are on one side. Don’t misunderstand). I can’t be on either sides of those spectrums because 1. I know UBF is made up of humans. 2. I still see God’s work happening. Anyways, those are some of my ideas, you don’t have to agree. And I’m sorry if I am making some assumptions about your books before I read them. I’m not saying that you are on one side of that spectrum or not. Just stating my thoughts. Ok, I’m just going to go read your books now, before I say anything else.

By: Mark Mederich

Mark Mederich — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 14:17:23 +0000

mj, I like your balanced outlook on things;
I didn’t realize I had made so many little comments to express myself, but oh well here’s one more: hallelujah!

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:17:11 +0000

MJ, Rem has Andrew’s book. I brought it for you all, but it was addressed to Rem by Andrew himself.

By: BK

BK — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:16:20 +0000

Here are links to our books

By: BK

BK — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:15:36 +0000

Every ubfer should skip 1 Daily Bread book purchase and buy my book and Andrew’s book. Our books are cheaper and might be healthier :)

Also my second book is in the works. I decided to completely change my idea for the book. It will be dedicated to the families of UBF and will contain many explanations and analysis of how I recovered from the ubf heritage and found goodness. The working title of my second book is “Goodness Found: The Butterfly Narratives”.

By: MJ Peace

MJ Peace — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 18:23:43 +0000

Hi big bear,

I will definitely read your book and BK’s. If Ben has it, I can get it from him. Then I’ll write a critique and tell you what I think:).

By: BK

BK — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 10:48:48 +0000

I stumbled across an interesting thing today. Youtube automatically catalogs embedded videos by category. So "ubfriends.org" has its own category. Take a look at our blog community through the eyes of the videos we've posted: ubfriends Youtube videos

By: Darren Gruett

Darren Gruett — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 21:20:10 +0000

Brian, thanks for posting these statistics. It’s very interesting. I can see I have some work to do if I want to bolster my ranking.

By: big bear

big bear — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:36:05 +0000

Mj peace…sense your competitive spirit…glad to see this…and your more envolvement on this site…hope you read our books

By: MJ Peace

MJ Peace — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:44:09 +0000

“But to be a top comment maker on this highly touted and prestigious website, you have a ways to go to catch up with Brian and I.”

Hahaha, I see how it is Dr. Ben. I see that there is “tribalism, sectarianism, elitism and exclusivity” in the area of posting comments on this site too. I guess, it is a part of human nature that is so natural, competition. Anyway, I’m still going to try to read more articles and comment more.:) Btw, I love the phrase you coined, “relational inclusivity.” So much could be said on that topic including Christian and non-Christian relationships.

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:42:27 +0000

I think that we should be careful that we do not regard truth as anything but absolute. I think an aim can be fixed, but the methods will differ, sometimes they work against the aim as well. There are multiple paths up a mountain, the mountain has a definite peak. There are also many roads away from the mountain. Some methods won’t work at all.

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:27:41 +0000

Thanks, MJ, I love your passion and your ambition. But to be a top comment maker on this highly touted and prestigious website, you have a ways to go to catch up with Brian and I. :-)

One ugly aspect of our fallen humanity is the default and inclination toward arbitrary dichotomy, which invariably results in, breeds and promotes tribalism, sectarianism, elitism and exclusivity. The basic unfortunate questions becomes, “Are you in, or are you out?” “Do you do as we do, or are you doing your own thing?” “Are you going to be humble and conform to be like me, or are you going to be proud and rebellious?” I am sorry that those were my implicit questions for the first quarter of a century of my Christian life.

Such dichotomous sentiments and attributes does not promote unity. Instead, it leads to mistrust, distrust, bad blood, one-upmanship, marginalization, shaming, guilt-tripping, woundedness, and brokenness among ourselves.

The simple solution is the Cross where Christ’s arms are open wide in love to the world. The phrase I coined for myself is “RELATIONAL INCLUSIVITY.” I have no idea and no clue how to do it! but it is a journey into a yet unknown mysterious future.

By: BK

BK — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 10:58:08 +0000

Sure Ben. I added more description to the title just now. But these side-bar discussions won’t help you overtake me as the #1 commenter :)

I also added one more stat to show a count of how many articles have been submitted. You get the #1 spot in articles Ben!

By: MJ Peace

MJ Peace — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 05:03:43 +0000

I think it’s awesome that people both in and out of ubf are commenting. I personally think UBF is what you make it. I am a product of the postmodern generation, of course;) Each chapter has it’s own flavor. Each chapter has its good, bad and ugly. Some have it in different proportions.
I think no two believers are the same; each has their own questions/doubts/struggles specific to themselves. So even if two people are from UBF they can be very different and a ubf-er and a non-ubfer can be more similar. I don’t understand people who say “you are UBF,” but “you are not.” What does that mean? (I’m talking about when people say xxx chapter is not UBF because they don’t fish/write testimonies.)
Anyways, I’m reading “Mushrooms on the Moor,” by Frank Boreham and he mentions a dislike for “ready-made clothes.” He uses this as an analogy for ready-made theology. UBF does have a certain theology, but I think everyone has to find their own, of course, the gospel is the non-negotiable center, but other issues like how you pray/worship/marry/evangelize. Those decisions need to be made by believers for themselves, through prayer, pouring over scripture and the Holy Spirit. By the way, after reading this post I’ve decided I also want to be a top comment maker on ubfriends, so that’s why I’ve started spamming this site with my comments:)

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 03:11:49 +0000

BK, I’m wondering if you might change the title to “Who Comments on UBFriends,” or “Top 10 Commenters on UBFriends,” which seems clearer than “Who’s Talking.”

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 01:34:13 +0000

This rumor is being propagated by certain high profile ubf people including the general director’s daughter. I think beyond that many Korean missionaries are older and cannot control the Internet, so they view any information they cannot directly inspect as dangerous. Knowledge is power, it’s also ambivalent. It can be good or bad. Some people view what is presented here as bad, but they would rather not address any of the claims, so they appeal to their own authority (this works in Korea, not in America), or they just start attacking people when that fails. I think a major problem for ubf, which I mentioned in an email to mark v which he said he would respond to but didn’t, is that western society does not accept either appeal to authority or ad hominum arguments. Western society is too steeped in analysis, and college students use the Internet too much. It is tragic to me that there are many good ubf chapters, such as in Springfield il, but since ubf offers little to no counterweight here you get an idea that ubf is the authoritarian, manipulative, small minded chapters that are typically run by native Koreans. Native Korean methods tend to work for native Koreans.

By: BK

BK — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 19:15:37 +0000

So these stats show that I am the primary, #1 vocal critic of ubf. The path to reconciliation between ubf and ex-ubf therefore runs through me.

This reconciliation path does not need to involve lawsuits from ubf and certainly will not involve my silence. But a path to reconciliation does exist. It is a narrow path. It is a painful path. And it is the path I’m on.

Will ubf leaders join me on this path?