Comments on: It’s more fun in the Philippines – Part 3 http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13024 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:04:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13024 Forests…”It is more fun living outside of UBF” You dont need the manipulation and the control and the legalism or the “marriage by faith.” All these things could be avoided if UBF would let go of the deep religious pride that came with its founders. It is a blessing to connect with healthy churches. This week prayed with a baptist pastor and have lunch engagement with Pastor from a new church called the movement. Read John Armstrong book…your church is to small. UBF is very small and its vision is small. This is why they are afraid to work with other healthy churches. They keep members by force and guilt and shame not with love and grace

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13022 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 03:40:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13022 That is incredible. Thanks for pointing this out.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13021 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:30:49 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13021 Yes, what C.S. Lewis writes is quite good, thanks :) Perhaps ubf messengers at conferences should read more of such people’s writings.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13020 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:27:16 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13020 You nailed it, forests:

“I have observed that some UBF chapters are unsuccessful for 2 reasons.”

> Yes there are indeed just 2 areas to change for a ubf chapter to begin transforming out of their cultic cocoon and into a new life Christian ministry. You give two good examples, and there are numerous ways to say the same two things.

“First they are very legalistic, and manipulative.”

> Yes the first category of change needed is what I call “face the facts”. Legalism and manipulation are two facts that need to be faced head on. I understand that Korean culture beats around the bush and does not enjoy directness. But the gospel persuades us to do so. Abraham faced the facts about his life and his wife. Are we any different?

“The second way I have observed them fail is with regards to the policy on marriage by faith.”

> Yes the second category of change needed is what I call “release the bonds”. The marry-within-ubf-by-obeying-your-shepherd just has to end. Such bondage is unhealthy and produces people like myself and Andrew who write books about undue religious influence. There are many other layers of bondage, and I explore those in my second book.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13019 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:24:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13019 I encourage you read this. Cs Lewis says that God wants to glorify us.

This sermon brought me back from years of stagnation. I had not attended church and I felt that God was very far away. Then at once I felt him close again with this sermon. I cannot recommend it enough. I brought it to the Philippines.

http://www.verber.com/mark/xian/weight-of-glory.pdf

He says this
“I suddenly remembered that no one can enter heaven except as a child; and nothing is so obvious in a child—not in a conceited child, but in a good child—as its great and undisguised pleasure in being praised. Not only in a child, either, but even in a dog or a horse. Apparently what I had mistaken for
humility had, all these years. prevented me from understanding what is in fact the humblest, the most childlike, the most
creaturely of pleasures—nay, the specific pleasure of the inferior: the pleasure a beast before men, a child before its father, a pupil before his teacher, a creature before its Creator. I am not forgetting how horribly this most innocent desire is parodied in our human ambitions, or how very quickly, in my own experience, the lawful pleasure of praise from those whom it was my duty to please turns into the deadly poison of self-admiration. But I thought I could detect a moment—a very, very short moment—before this happened, during which the satisfaction of having pleased those whom I rightly loved and rightly feared was pure. And that is enough to raise our thoughts to what may happen when the redeemed soul, beyond all hope and nearly beyond belief, learns at last that she has pleased Him whom she was created to please. There will be no room for vanity then. She will be free from the miserable illusion that it is her doing. With no taint of what we should now call self-approval she will most innocently rejoice in the
thing that God has made her to be, and the moment which heals her old inferiority complex for ever will also drown her pride deeper than Prospero’s book. Perfect humility dispenses with modesty. If God is satisfied with the work, the work may be satisfied with itself.”

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13018 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:04:05 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13018 Good catch gc!

Yet another glaring example of the difference between a Christian ministry like Philippines ubf seems to be and the cult-like new religious movements most other ubf chapters propagate. Christians exalt Jesus; cults exalt themselves.

When my home ubf chapter studied John 17 our main messenger at the conference taught us to replace “Jesus” with “your name”, and shout “God, glorify ME! God, glorify ME!”.

That was the last ubf conference I ever attended. That message woke me up and I suddenly saw that I had become a nostalgic hagiographer, misusing the name of Jesus to defend and enable an abusive religious system.

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By: gc http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13017 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 00:48:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13017 Okay, I can’t resist. You studied what passage in English???

You studied John 17. Remember our concerns about the 2013 ISBC?
No John 17: http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/05/19/why-john-17-is-about-the-mission-of-jesus/

Any thoughts?

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13015 Thu, 24 Apr 2014 21:31:04 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13015 Some events will be left for a further report. My chapter director will get a copy of this. In time he will know of all the events in the Philippines, some of them after I move out of common life in August :)

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13008 Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:32:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13008 Forests…how has the trip changed your life…be more specific….I can sense joy in your writings….are you going to share report to your chapter director

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13006 Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:36:43 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13006 I should be clear about this “In some bible studies she requested that the students speak in English but I had to be very insistent in telling them to speak freely.”

In part 2 I mentioned 1-1 bible studies. But after the message there was a group bible study/ testimony meeting. It was somewhere in between, and seemed to vary from group to group how it was done. In my group the leader asked each person 3 questions. I don’t remember exactly, but they were related to the message. It turned into a discussion. When one student began answering in Tagalog the leader said “English, english” I stopped her and told him to speak in Tagalog. After he finished she translated. Then he asked me about a confusing issue he had the the second coming. I tried to answer his question but I had a distinct impression I did not understand what he was asking. He said I had answered his question, but I felt like he was just saying this. If anyone from Philippines UBF sees the very tall student David. Ask him about his question. I would like to see it answered.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/04/24/its-more-fun-in-the-philippines-part-3/#comment-13005 Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:21:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7791#comment-13005 Thanks, Forests! My subjective sense is that UBF Philippines is well balanced in:

* Orthodoxy: Right beliefs. Grounded and rooted in Scripture.
* Orthopraxy: Right practices. Repentance, faith and obedience.
* Orthopathy: Right emotions. Love, joy, peace, etc.

Some churches that emphasize Bible study and obedience might come across (without realizing it) as believing in the Father, Son and Holy Bible.

Worse yet, they might even disparage anyone who seems to show excessive emotion of joy and public expressions of worship, thus inadvertently despising the Holy Spirit and accusing such Christians as being steeped in empty emotionalism, while not realizing that they might be communicating a dead orthodoxy.

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