It was posted on the websites of the reformers, ubfnet.com (Korea), ubf2000.de (Germany) and ubfreform.org (USA). It had even been reported by the Korean media such as NewsNJoy (a popular Korean web magazine) and CBS 98.1 (a Seoul radio station). I made a summary of what had been posted, and I still have it.

The official statement given by the Korean leadership in Oct 2001 was this:

“Since one and a half year the reformers have confused the community of UBF and pushed towards a division. We take a punitive measure, because the reformers
– have destroyed the spiritual order in the church,
– don’t send offering moneys to the headquarters any more and have organized themselves independently,
– have attacked Samuel Lee and the leadership of UBF on internet pages and also published their own magazine “High School Mission 21” and their own “Daily Bread,”
– have had their own Conference in July 2000 in Korea,
– have written articles in the NewsNjoy magazine to justify themselves,
– have hindered the members meeting to fulfill its legally defined task, because the reformers are more than one third of the board meetings’ members,
– have confused many coworkers of UBF.
We tried for unity. But now there is not any hope for unity with them any more.”

As you see they tried to paint the opposite picture, as if they sought unity and the reformers tried to divide. But I can testify that this was not the case. Their motto was always “reform and unity”. They ignored the first expulsion as illegal and continued to operate under the name of UBF, until they were finally expelled completely in 2002.

You must remember that at that time, there was no financial accountability in UBF, and no transparent accounting. One of the demands of the reform movement was to establish financial accountability, and they refused sending money to the headquarters until finanical accountability was established. I think this was legitimate.

It makes me sad that today only UBF’s version of the history is told, with many important events completely removed and others twisted so much that they are far from reality. The 2001 reform movement was an important event, in which UBF I believe lost more than half of their membership (nobody knows for sure).

I do not doubt that this is very likely true, since it is in keeping with my own experience of being in UBF for 34 years since 1980. But if you don’t mind me asking, Chris:

* How do you know this, especially with the precise dates of Jan 31, 2002 and Oct 5, 2001?

* Is there a link for this?

Again, I insist we talk properly about this. They tried to keep unity; they did not leave, they were officialy expelled.

The legal board meeting of Korea UBF on January 31, 2002 decided to deprive all reform oriented members, who were not already expelled at the foregoing board meeting of October 5, 2001, of their membership and their right to attend the general meeting of members of Korea UBF. This happened under the leadership of John Jun in Korea, and Sarah Barry in the US, after the death of Samuel Lee.

We really need to keep the historical facts straight.

Friend, My thoughts are that ATK is a good man and a God-fearing Christian. I know that he will gladly meet with you. I think that you might be quite happy to meet him, because his demeanor is gentle and soft-spoken. I also believe that he genuinely wants to please God in the complex “mess” that is UBF.

At the same time, a positive definitive action (whatever that might be) requires something decisive that will likely upset and offend lots of people, especially older UBFers who have been in UBF for 3 to 4 decades or longer. So I understand that it is difficult for any GD to make any clear cut decision, since it would be embarking into an unknown with likely some undesirable results, such as UBF breaking up, or a major section of UBF leaving, such as has happened in prior years with the largest ex-UBF group being CMI (campus mission international).

So even if I do not agree with him, I understand that ATK often says, as he did to Charles (and others) to “wait.”

You wrote:

“That’s why I have thought that focusing on change and support at a local level might be more effective, more like down-up than up-down. I do feel we are each responsible for our brother and sister.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/07/it-is-very-good/#comment-13593

Yes, people at the local level need support. But what we need most of all, what he have desperately needed all along but couldn’t find, was friendship.

I’m not talking about the kind of relationships that people call “coworking,” which are rooted in the idea that we stand by one another because we are fighting on the same side, working for a common cause and mission (i.e. pioneering and establishing ministries in the name of ubf). I’m talking about genuine friendship that listens, understands, and loves the person and places the person’s well being ahead of the cause.

I hate to say this, but it’s true. For more than 2 decades, Sharon and I experienced many of those coworking relationships within ubf. They helped us and supported us as long as we obediently stayed with the program. As soon as we started to raise tough questions, those coworking relationships dissolved or became toxic. The turning point for us came when one couple reached out to us and showed us real friendship, friendship that was not dependent on our ubf status. With them, we were finally able to take off our masks and become honest. Since then, we have found friendship with several other couples that has nothing to do with the ubf mission. If mutual friendship and mutual support is what you are after, you may well find that the ubf identity and mission are a serious hindrance and barrier. It may be possible to overcome those barriers without formally leaving ubf, but it won’t be easy.

“I am part of what has become a larger ministry in the US and have very limited interaction with such house churches.”

One of the reasons I stayed in ubf for 24 years is what I call the KOPHN Fantasy. Two parts of that fantasy are that ubf is large and ubf is multi-cultural.

I prided myself being part of a large ministry that welcomed all cultures and was doing meaningful, large-scale cross-cultural work.

After leaving ubf I got a dose of reality that shattered my previous perspective. ubf is small. ubf is Korean.

For example how many people are at ubf worldwide? 3,000? 6,000? 8,000? My local church has 1,500 people attending services each week. The Catholic church has 1.1 billion adherents.

ubf is clearly not building a kingdom of priests and holy nation by respecting each culture they encounter. Anyone reading the reports publicly available on ubf.org can see the Koreanization of each country. Each nationality is only able to express their own culture if they also conform to some Korean values.

Canada might be an exception (emphasis on *might*). The recent Canada night is interesting. At least ubf is starting to talk about Winnipeg, the massive failure of ubf missionaries. This doesn’t seem like a very honest report, but it might be a start of “facing the facts”.

Looks like the museum attitude is continuing with this new ubf chapter history website.

Think I’m lying about the ubf heritage slogans? Check this new website out: ubf Heritage

Ditto, Amen, +1, Like, Share, and Yes!

Thank you for your posts and openness. I’m also new to commenting on this website. You mentioned many important things, a few of which I’d like to respond to.

About knowing others:
I have read the stories people have posted about themselves here on this website. I’ve also met a Brian, Joe, and Ben, and a few others in passing at staff conferences or in Chicago. I knew of them, but didn’t know them or was known by them. I began to join discussions here to begin get to know personally more of the community at large, especially outside of all of the positive events, such as conferences. It also helps that some here use their full name as their username (I’m not saying you should, only that this openness has helped me to know and identify with others in a more personal way). This is why I also chose to use my full name as my username.

About reconciliation using the relationship of a couple:
I fully understand your point about reconciliation and blame. Casting blame inhibits reconciliation. Personally, I’ve learned this to be true in my marriage which I could apply to other relationships. I think of 1 Corinthians 6:7 that asks, “Why not be wronged?” This question certainly helped me to accept that being “right” is not as important as reconciliation. Even Jesus made himself sin and was wronged for the sake of reconciling us to God.

However, I believe using the relationship of a couple to describe the relationships in UBF, especially with those calling for reform or change, is problematic because not all members have been treated as if they were in a marriage relationship or like a couple, whether good or bad, but as a missionary / native, shepherd / sheep, teacher / student, servant of God / people of servant, kind of relationship. Generally speaking, there has always been a kind of distance in the relationship as defined by these roles. There are times of love and friendship, etc., but the distance is strongly felt. Therefore, we need a different approach.

About prejudice:
Yes, prejudice has gone both ways. But, again, the relationship was not established as an equal, two-way relationship. At this point in my life in UBF, I have found, and openly expressed, that I am prejudiced against Koreans. I am not saying that I am prejudiced in terms of hatred or dismissal of all Koreans. I do not disregard the people for who they are as people, and their love for God and others, their work for the ministry, their kindness and friendship and so on. But I am prejudiced in terms of the development of the ministry for the sake of such things mentioned here: forgiveness, reconciliation, discipleship, support. One way I expressed my prejudice in my chapter, for example, is by appointing native leadership and remove the Korean leadership. It is prejudiced because they are Korean. I expressed to the director how I feel this is a necessity at this point in our chapter. Do a big sweep.

In many ways we became a ministry that prioritizes on serving the missionaries, honoring senior members and allowing them to retain positions and authority. This is also a kind of prejudice that is strongly felt and extremely frustrating. Some senior people who are not involved in the ministry except to demand to be honored with authority and titles.

I also work at a Korean company. I am just tired of being controlled and pressured by Korean ways and people, which often comes across as always being right and with a sense of entitlement. I am so frustrated with seeing the preferential treatment given to the Korean members. It’s under the guise that they are “missionaries” but underneath that it comes across as really because they are Korean. Consider how numbers are recorded each week for Sunday worship attendance. There are two categories, World Mission and American Shepherd. We have a bona fide missionary from a far east asian country, though not Korea, who is categorized as American shepherd and largely treated as such. Yet there are immigrant Koreans who happened to join our ministry through a friendship with one of the missionaries who at times are called missionary and counted under the world mission category. Finally, it was admitted that we are really counting Koreans and Others.

I also see the call for Americans, even well into their 30’s, to be “trained” over and over again. Americans in their 30’s are at times not even spoken to face to face, but decisions have to first be discussed with their shepherd. Why are people being treated like children? Why aren’t Koreans dealt with in this way? How long will they be treated like this? Even, I have heard it expressed as if Americans should be grateful for the favor of occasional permissions and allowances given to them. Personally, I don’t want permission or allowance, but the regard of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, whatever country you’re from.

I am not taking away from the challenges faced in living in another country. I haven’t experienced it personally. However, I do know that it is possible to live in LA, for example, and enjoy all things Korean, Korean companies, Korean town, Korean food markets, restaurants and banks, etc. Largely, you don’t even need to learn English to survive well here. There are large Korean immigrant communities and support avenues.

So, Korean missionaries have asked me, “What’s the purpose of coming as a missionary then?” But they don’t understand that Americans are also asking the same question, “What’s the purpose of coming as a missionary then?” because they don’t see the Korean missionaries letting go and giving to the Americans. They don’t see the right prioritization in who we are “serving.” The target of campus students seems lost and we’ve turned inwardly by our prejudices. And we also have our own “lost generation” among us, as Joe and Brian mentioned.

As mentioned above, there is a distance that is felt. In her message at the last staff conference on Ezra, Mother Barry subtly referenced marriage and “foreigners.” Many second gens are encouraged to marry someone from Korea although the second gens grew up in the mission land of their parents. How are the natives of that mission land supposed to see this except as prejudice and distance?

Unfortunately, there are so many things to be said about prejudice. How many times have students or students’ families commented that they are at a Korean church? And we gave cause to that, not just because of the people, but our ways of doing things and presenting ourselves according to such prejudices.

Therefore it’s difficult to accept the call for baby steps at this point. I think it is more urgent to be quick and full in the sweeping of our bad practices, similar to the actions of king Hezekiah found in 2 Kings 18:2-3.

About support for scattered house churches:
Do you have experience in a small ministry or in making efforts to network or support them? If so, how did it go?

I am part of what has become a larger ministry in the US and have very limited interaction with such house churches. I have done visiting tours a few times with a regional or international coordinator. I have heard firsthand their complaints and cries for support during these visits. I saw their homes, sometimes their workplaces too, their children and neighborhood. They invited me to eat in their homes and sleep a night or two. My heart went out to them and I hear a little more clearly their cry for support and help. I’ve heard their stories at staff, regional, and international conferences too. Around the world I I heard the same thing: they need support but aren’t getting it; they are lonely. My observations lead me to agree with what Brian and Joe have mentioned about connecting with local churches in the community.

Recently, a “world mission prayer vessel” was established among “key” members. There were talks of just collecting email addresses and prayer topics. In my opinion, that’s a waste of time and not helpful. I encouraged people to visit. Real, in-person communication, fellowship, and friendship are needed.

There is major cognitive dissonance on our part regarding this issue of house churches. There are cries of loneliness and lack of support, yet the same people submit reports of praise for preaching a Sunday message to empty chairs for months on end. Our mission values are at conflict with the needs of the very people sent out to do the work. We want to hold to and promote these values at the risk of our very own people who are giving their lives. In my opinion, the “message” and the Sunday worship format has become a kind of idol among us.

Why the focus on “personal identity”? What about community? My wife and I closed our “house church” to join a real community. Only then did we find “God’s love for us personally.”, something we had not experienced for a long, long time at ubf.

And I would add, in my case and for the 1/2 of the Toledo ubf leaders who also left, “For many others it is the UBF they left in 2011”.

Let’s not pretend all the “bad things” were just a characteristic of 1976 ubf. Some of us are talking about 2014 ubf in America, Germany, Taiwan, Russia, Ukraine, etc.

So many of us do know each other, but actually many do not as well. I actually know more people than might be thought. The point is I remember ‘you’ after attending many conferences or events, but do ‘you’ remember me. I’m not really anyone special outside of my home chapter so that’s why many people may not realize they know me. As for Brian – I remember well how we became facebook friends. After I made the analogy of a husband who abuses his wife you posted a comment suggesting you didn’t know who I was, but wanted to. So, I added you on facebook. =)

I will say shortly on the forgiveness comment. It is true we do need to forgive (if we haven’t yet). But, forgiveness is not a one-sided application. Forgiveness also does not necessarily mean that we allow an ongoing conflict in relations to continue. It is not unforgiveness if we must step out of the relationship as a way of self defence. There aren’t just some people out there who are unable to change in the time that we hope. (Although, I know that many people are trying if they have had some failing and hurt someone along the way.) There are a number of people who actually believe their behaviour and actions are good and upright. They would do the same thing again if placed in the same situation. I do have a problem with this position.

Many people are wounded and that’s exactly why they need to meet Christ for the first time or for the one hundredth time. We do need to speak in terms of Christian identity. It is possible that the use of finger waving at UBF is a result of the negative view that UBF people have against every other Christian who has a different calling or even the same calling. Unfortunately, UBF has an appearance of being exclusive and is often conditional in the love expressed to people. Anyway, it is a goal of most of us I believe to speak strictly for our Christian identity.

Regarding prejudice I badly want to comment, but simply have to control myself. I am married to a Korean and have had relationships with Korean both outside and inside of UBF for more than a decade. There have been good and bad. There have been professional and social. There have been the ones in UBF. I will say that in Korea – if a Korean wants to be prejudiced, Go ahead, I am in your country. However, if a Korean ‘missionary’ is prejudiced against anyone in the country that they are God’s servants to, there is a problem. You are seeking converts to your church, faith whatever…for how long do people put up with the blatant prejudice? (…let native leaders lead…) It is not just about senior members, it is also part of the prejudice. I would say that many non-Koreans struggled hard against their prejudices if they stayed longer than a few months, years etc….

I think one thing that needs to happen is better communication between UBF members. I am personally connected with many commentators here. Knowing Ben Toh from this website was instrumental in my trip to the Philippines. I have spoken with people around the world, members, exmembers, and non members. I do think that the comments on this forum can come off wrong, because people are holding different definitions of “UBF”. For many its the UBF they left a long time ago, for others they mean the UBF created by SL. I am guilty too. Sometimes I mean UBF like how Springfield was, and other times how St. Louis is. UBF is a broad group with differing things working different ways in different places.

Most of all I think dialog is important. I was recently told by someone that they comments here “are not good for your spiritual health because they discourage fishing, etc” This kind of “don’t talk to the devil” attitude makes change impossible, and it’s the same attitude that pushes away people.

I think that many times people cannot relate to stories here. I am 23, many commentators here were in UBF before I was born. They married people that they were told to marry in some case. I can’t understand this at most levels. Many people who might comment just have nothing to say to this. I know in my case I don’t really respond to that and just respond to my personal experiences.

I think the lack of places for former members who have experienced pain has led a lot to the negative comments. I think the articles content is rarely all negative. I think perhaps a first step is to have people write more neutral articles.

Unfortunately, he’s right. To me, one of the saddest things about the current situation is that small chapters have little or no practical help or moral support or even a sympathetic ear. On the rare occasions that they are contacted by their regional directors or headquarters, the communication is almost always something like, “Please submit your annual reports by such and such a date” or “We are having a conference and you are going to have to do this and that.” Their motto is, “Ask not what UBF can do for you. We’ll tell you what you must do for UBF.” There is essentially no empathy, no helpfulness, no concern. As a small chapter, you are truly on your own, and the sooner you realize that, the better. Even the GD has privately admitted that this is true.

Brian’s advice was to leave ubf and find a local church. If you do not want to leave ubf (and I can fully respect that choice) then at least take the second step. Start building real friendships and partnerships with non-ubf Christians in your area so that you and your family will have a local network of support. Because Brian is right; the cavalry isn’t coming. Headquarters is scrambling to deal with declining numbers and revenue, patch up feuds, put out political fires and minimize the ongoing damage caused by hardliners. Many leaders are burned out. They are barely treading water, and it will only get worse. You need fellowship and spiritual encouragement and real friends. And you need sound, thoughtful and mature Christian teaching; you need to identify streams of teaching from non-ubf sources. I can offer you suggestions there, if you don’t know where to turn.

I find your thoughts to be mature, reasoned and rooted in the gospel Jesus preached. So you have much to share that will be very helpful for other ubf people. Sounds like you have actual leadership qualities.

Just 3 things I’d like to share further on:

“I would like to stop referring to UBF and instead focus on how we need to grow spiritually as individuals and how we can support each other, whether they are inside, outside or non UBF.”

This is a valid point. There are some redeemed ubf chapters (who don’t follow the ubf heritage “absolutely”). In my mind we need to distinguish between at least three things: ubf the heritage, ubf the people and ubf the corporation. When I rail on “ubf” I am referring to the ideologies and practices called “heritage”, summarized by the 8 or 9 or 12 slogans ubf leaders created. Mainly I have been exposing the harmful psychological elements of the heritage, which more and more ubf people are abandoning.

It is unfair to lump ubf people into “ubf”. At the same time, that is what happens when you belong to an organization with leaders who refuse to take responsibility for the criticisms and try to keep face. It’s up to you to prove you are different from “ubf”, as Ben and Joe have done brilliantly. I can talk to them with no problem and never see them as “ubf”.

“I do not know how everyone seems to know each other’s identities.”

For myself, I know the people here mostly from Facebook. I am friends on Facebook with “gc” and “forests”, for example, so I know who they are. Others have interacted with me in email privately, such as bigbear, so I know who they are. In principle, I never reveal anyone’s identity if they wish to remain anonymous. As the tech Admin here, I promise not to reveal anything about your identity.

Finally, you said we should offer suggestions for helping ubf chapters, especially the house churches scattered. My first reaction is: that’s not our job. I have only one suggestion for any house church: leave ubf and connect with a local church. That was the single best decision my wife and I ever made. As one other house church leader told me about ubf: The calvary ain’t coming! That’s true.

ubf corporate leaders have no plan for the lone house churches who make up a large percentage (over 75%?) of the total chapter count of ubf. ubf appears to be a worldwide network, but without those single family pioneers, ubf is nothing but a Korean organization with outposts in Chicago and LA and Mexico.

I discovered that these single families are nothing but pawns in the ubf heritage game, who exist to puff up the ubf numbers and help them keep up appearances of being a worldwide “Christian” network.

I found that as Joe mentioned my family was part of the “lost generation”. ubf had no plans for my family. Samuel Lee used to use the phrase “fertilizer generation”. He explained this once when I had breakfast with Sarah Barry in her house in Chicago (when her mother was still alive). Samuel had been counselling a missionary and came over to visit our breakfast. He told the story of how some missionaries must become fertilizer with no real purpose other than to live out their calling (in ubf).

SO the lost generation was not accidental. It was planned. It was intentional. If only the ubf heritage could be passed on to the 2nd generation, the 1st generation was willing to do just about anything.

For example, the recent Jakarta conference report on ubf.org demonstrates this well. I see many negative things spun as good. I find much of the activities reported questionable. http://ubf.org/content/jakarta-ubf-easter-conference-report

Here’s a line that raised my eyebrows: “A brother who couldn’t leave his homosexuality became more masculine through this dance.” Ironic? The masking of negative things with a good spin seems so forced, unnecessary and unhealthy.

“Missionaries have been prejudiced toward Americans. I also believe Americans have been prejudiced toward missionaries.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/07/it-is-very-good/#comment-13523

What you say is undoubtedly true. Ignorance, ethnocentrism, tribalism and racism are sad facts of life in the fallen world, and the gospel, when rightly understood and proclaimed, will challenge those at a very deep level.

Yes, Korean missionaries to the west faced culture shock, unfriendliness, isolation and varying degrees of discrimination.

But I will add one observation to the mix.

Think about what it was like for Americans like me who came to ubf way back in the late 70’s and 80’s. At that time, Chicago ubf was a sea of Korean faces. Some of us can still remember how the Sunday messages were delivered both in Korean and in English. We grew up in the United States, arguably the most Christian nation on earth, with a well established Christian heritage, and most of us self-identified as Christians and had gone to church all our lives. Now we were being “evangelized” by self-proclaimed Korean “missionaries” — who had themselves only been converted a few years ago, who had no theological or missiological training and limited English proficiency, who used titles and bowed to one another and spoke in UBFisms — we were being told by them that we needed to be evangelized by them and come to their strange little Korean church because we weren’t real Christians yet, we had no mission, we were only “cultural Christians” and “Sunday Christians.”

And guess what? We came to this strange, little Korean church. We accepted their very harsh critiques of our culture that came though loud and clear in their Bible studies and Sunday messages. We accepted them as our teachers and submitted to their training and obeyed their direction in outrageous ways, even to the point of allowing them to separate us from our own families and arrange and supervise our marriages. We allowed them to dictate our styles of dress, our daily and weekly schedules, basically everything we did. We spoke in their dialect, using their accents and mannerisms. Their collective identity became ours.

Surely that counts for something.

So when I hear some Korean missionaries suggest that some of my critiques of them are rooted in racism, my first reaction is to say, “Oh, really?”

For the handful of us who have been heavily involved in this website from the beginning, it is hard for us to imagine the perspective of a younger person who visits UBFriends now and is trying to figure out what it’s all about. Your articulate comments made me realize how daunting it must have been for you to jump in to these conversations, even if you are sympathetic to much of what we say.

And it made me realize how hard it must be for a present member of ubf to get useful insight and suggestions from this website on how to work for positive change in their own local contexts.

Many of us who comment here have “been through the wringer.” We have belonged to ubf for 2-3 decades or more, serving as chapter directors, and unsuccessfully working for theological and ethical reform in personal relationship with the top leaders of the organization. Our experiences and observations might be interesting to you, but at the end of the day, you need to ask, “So what does this have to do with me?” You may not have many opportunities deal with leaders at headquarters. You may have not been involved in the planning and execution of large scale ubf conferences and events. So when we make grand, sweeping, general statements about what ubf has done and what should be done, much of what we say is probably lost on you because you, as a local chapter member, cannot deal in generalities but only in particularities.

You wrote:

“We have many families in small house churches who are crying for help and support. I’m wondering if we can brainstorm ways to reach out to them or reach out to people who feel unloved, unsupported in UBF so that they can experience God’s love for them personally.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/07/it-is-very-good/#comment-13517

Amen to that.

I have tried to do that in the past. I have made many practical, positive suggestions to leaders and, as a result, have been marginalized and branded as dangerous. But the things that I suggested to leaders years ago that were considered so outrageous might today seem like no-brainers.

To start, I will try to dig up some of the practical suggestions I have made in the past and post them here. Perhaps that will give you some ideas of what you can do at the local level, despite the inertia that keeps large chapters and the top levels of the organization frozen in time.

First, I should let you know that although I am relatively young, I am not technologically savvy. Despite having a FB site for many years, I just recently felt comfortable posting on it. Now that I’ve become comfortable with that, I have started venturing into this webpage. Since I am not too comfortable yet posting my opinions for strangers to read, I would like to remain anonymous.

Next I should say I am committed to UBF although not close-minded.

Third, I am one of the people who secretly applauded Joe for this webpage. I didn’t know how much it meant to him for people to comment so I apologize for that. I think the idea behind this webpage is good, but as for commentators, you cannot expect people to comment when they do not feel ready, when they are not sure of where they stand, when they are not sure how their comments would be received or fit in here, when they do not feel commenting is a priority. A personal relationship and friendship takes years and years to cultivate trust before a person will reveal his inner thoughts. I think it would be harder and take longer for a webpage to cultivate that level of trust and friendship, not shorter.

I think that overall UBF is trying to open itself and move forward. I don’t think anyone would want things to go back to the way they were originally. But it took 50 years to get here, it will not change in just a few years. We need to acknowledge baby steps.

We also need forgiveness and patience in order to move toward reconciliation. As long as there is blame, I don’t see how reconciliation can take place. When I moved, everyone was broken and disillusioned. It took us almost 5 years just to know what it means to love each other in Christ despite personal pain or even anger. If a couple argues, can there be reconciliation when there is still blame? There must be forgiveness first, a commitment to treat the other with gentleness and respect, and then reconciliation. If we have an ideal of what people should look like in Christ, we must do that ourselves first. If we expect someone should apologize first before we can move forward I think that is mistaken. In essence, we are demanding the other side to change first.

But what if that person cannot change himself? Then do we blame them? Do we blame God who is not changing that person or who is not listening to me? Do we decide we will takeover God’s role as Judge?

I myself went through that when I found myself being unhappy with a person or not being able to understand that person’s actions. Ultimately, I felt my judgment was right and God was taking too long so I had to take things into my own hands. But there was no peace in my heart. I was robbed of my joy. It was only restored after acknowledging God as Creator and Author of my life and all people. Whether a person changes is between that person and God. That person has until his last breath to grow and be changed. Who knows what can happen? My part is to accept that God has allowed this person or situation to happen in my life. I must find how God wants me to grow through this and what he wants me to learn about myself. At the same time, my only job is to forgive and love that person. My only job is to give thanks in whatever situation God has given me.

Lastly, I would say all people in UBF are wounded, because of their past or their experience in UBF or outside relationships/situations. But when this webpage makes judging remarks about UBF, how am I supposed to respond as a person who identifies myself with this group? Suddenly I become lumped under “UBF” and I cannot speak. By saying “UBF” you are giving one face to many different people in the same organization. I would like to stop referring to UBF and instead focus on how we need to grow spiritually as individuals and how we can support each other, whether they are inside, outside or non UBF.

We have many families in small house churches who are crying for help and support. I’m wondering if we can brainstorm ways to reach out to them or reach out to people who feel unloved, unsupported in UBF so that they can experience God’s love for them personally. Maybe this may seem like a cop-out or covering past mistakes. Does God keep records? Personally I believe the way for real change is to demonstrate it in our lives and our community and others will see. God will see to it. But will it take a lifetime? Probably. Is it worth it?

(Editorial note: Your comment was paragraphed.)

I remember the smothering environment in Toledo ubf created by so many of us who viewed all negative things as “bad”. We thought that only positive things are good, but that is simply not the reality we live in.

I think I can safely say that saying positive things about UBF is clearly not a broad sweeping blanket endorsement of the ministry and that no changes and reform are necessary, which is clearly not the case. I agree with David that some changes are happening in Chicago HQ, however invisible or slow it may seem to be.

It is my contention that it is “OK” to say positive and encouraging things about UBF that are true.

I think it is correct to say that for whatever God’s reasons are, He used UBF to lead many to Himself, even if some (or many) were hurt, abused, stifled, constricted, and wounded in the process, which happens to all of us in all spheres of life and surely in all churches as well to varying degrees. (I’m really not sure that bad UBF experiences are the worst, after reading horrific experiences of others from different churches and ministries.)

By saying this, I am NOT excusing or justifying UBF, but I am saying that good has come from UBF (which is nothing but God’s grace and sovereignty), amidst the bad and the abusive (which UBF should take responsibility for).

So to you UBFers out there, DON’T BE AFRAID to say something positive about your church, and we (or at least I) promise to be gentle with your positive views and experiences about UBF. I have many positive experiences myself (of course, along with the bad).

Thus, the oldest, most senior, longest tenured members of UBF will invariably ALWAYS have the final say, and even “younger” members, even if they become the GD, will still honor those who came before them because they are unfamiliar with any other way, such as making a decision which the older person disapproves of or disagrees with or dislikes.

I think that those who honor the hierarchical power ranking really do think that not honoring the most senior person is a sin against God. This has likely been deeply ingrained into the the very fabric and DNA of UBF from the earliest days from the 1960s and it has been perpetuated and upheld to this day, I believe.

This C. S. Lewis quote speaks volumes: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Can this ever change? What can anyone possibly do?

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So ChrisK submitted 1 article and a few comments. Still I wonder, why is he presenting about ubfriends if he himself isn’t joining in the conversations? I know we tried to get him to contribute more, but not sure why nothing came of it.

Maybe someone should setup a pro-ubf website to outline all the defenses of why ubf is a Christian organization. That would protect ubf from all those ex-ubf satanists :)

Please see my long comment below on how to turn this website around.

I liked your article, like literally. I also appreciated the scripture-orientation of UBF because I came from a church which did not emphasize scripture nearly as much. The joy that I received from finally confronting scripture in a contextual manner was indescribable when I began attending UBF. Something that dawned on me some time ago is that one of the key reasons behind my ability to critique UBF’s messages and doctrine is ironically because of my UBF training, namely the disciplines of reading the bible and writing reflectively on it. And you’re right about the community; for someone who has been raised in UBF or has attended it for most of their Christian life, they would be shocked by the lack of deeply-committed community in many churches.

One thing I will add, just for food for thought, is that the notion of discipline within UBF, no matter how effective, can never replace or surpass the Spirit’s fruit of self-discipline. Thanks again for posting this.

You will have to do what marketers call rebranding.

People have already made up their minds about what UBFriends is about. Trying to change their opinions on this is a losing battle that isn’t worth fighting.

Get a new name for the website, a new design, a new domain name, and redirect all ubfriends.org traffic to that website.

Then do the following.

* Identify key people in ubf and get commitments from them to support this work by participating in discussions and writing articles. Line up support among the senior staff, elders and HQ.

* Create a restrictive set of rules about content and comments and monitor the website day and night to enforce the policies. If negative comments about ubf are posted, push back against them with many more positive comments so that pro-ubf comments outweigh anti-ubf ones by a ratio of at least 10:1. Be prepared to do this around the clock.

* When articles don’t come in, be prepared to write dozens of articles yourself. Bend over backwards to say positive things about ubf and its leaders. Refrain from open criticism and, if any ubf leader happens to join in the discussion, shower them with praise and approval no matter what they say.

* Pour your whole heart and soul into this effort and expect that it will occupy all your thoughts and free time for at least a couple of years.

* At the end of the day, be prepared for the vast majority of ubf members to criticize your efforts or simply ignore you and still not participate. Expect lots of 2nd gens to privately tell you that they like the website, but don’t expect them to participate. Know that, when they are around their parents and ubf leaders, many of them will not hesitate to throw you under the bus.

These are the things that I did for years. If anyone wants to try it, go ahead. But count me out. I’ve got better things to do with my time than to keep trying to rescue the ubf organization from its folly.

I think this is an interesting perspective. I’m glad that you have received good benefits and have good experiences and trustworthy friends in UBF, such as John Lee. I have many good experiences, dear friends and family, and wonderful experiences. And I know so many who have such good things to share too. Although I have mixed feelings about why you would pray this. If there is bad things overshadowing the good things, then it tells me that those issues need to be addressed properly and with urgency. I don’t see the struggle for a balance, but to soberly look at who we are and what we’re doing before God and each other.

As you have read, even the sweetest of memories can be turned bittersweet. People end up at a point of confusion and crisis. I also think about the environment in ways beyond just me now that I have kids and see much younger people coming into the fellowship.

Your title is also interesting for this reason. “It is very good,” references the garden of Eden, when all was good, as seen by God himself. It says, “all that he had made.” At that time there was no issue of the bad overshadowing the good, for it was all very good. Of course, this is not the case now, and which sounds like bigbear was trying to warn of putting on Genesis 2 glasses in regards to the good you’re experiencing now. So, to be honest, I find it strange to have to reiterate the good things we do. It may just be my own strangeness. I was then reminded of Ecclesiastes 7:14,

When times are good, be happy;
but when times are bad, consider this:
God has made the one
as well as the other.
Therefore, no one can discover
anything about their future.

Anyway, I don’t mean to take away from any of the good things you’ve shared. I’m genuinely glad to hear them and to see what is resonating with newer members so I can improve on for those in my own interactions with others.

“It was actually presented during one of the breakout sessions.”

Is this the presentation you are referring to?

I share my “behind the scenes” look at that presentation I gave.

If I misunderstood your comments, please correct me.

That said, I do find the major commenters here, especially the admins, to be very friendly, genuine, and welcoming. I just started posting this week and do feel welcomed. I heard about ubfriends at a staff conference several years ago. It was actually presented during one of the breakout sessions. I have been a long time reader, but held off on joining the discussion till now. Not for the sake of advocating one side or other other, but just to join in the discussion and see where it goes and what I can hear from others.

I was glad to get those comments on my daily bread article. I understand that when I publicly publish something it is fair game to the public. I also volunteered my co-authorship for the sake of further discussion and learning, although no one asked me to. I didn’t realize how things I had written in that article might be interpreted by the larger (ex)UBF audience, as I had written it expressly for my local chapter. But still it was good to get that feedback and consider how others might read it. It is a good learning opportunity for me.

What topics would I like to discuss? One thing I’ve liked about ubfriends is that the discussion topics are set or narrowly kept to certain topics. The openness of it has been good. I have a few ideas on articles to contribute, but there’s still in the drafts pile.

I often seek tension because the absence of conflict is not necessarily peace and often closure is not the path to reconciliation.

So I expressed above what I heard you say. “I don’t like this article because I hear self-justification.”

This doesn’t mean that you are self-justifying, just that is what I hear. That’s how this article comes across to me. Thanks for clarifying your actual position, because I did’t hear that in the article.

We all need to learn how to see other people’s perspectives and adjust accordingly, because we won’t be putting our masks on again anytime soon.

I also realize it feels worse than death to get out of a box that you thought and believed was your shield, your rock, your fortress and your stronghold. I still remember the first time I decided that “I’m done writing testimonies” and done with everything thing else that I had never questioned for a quarter of a century.

So I understand that it will be tough, if not impossible for some to ever get out of their comfort box.

Is there a gentler, kinder, more gracious and less traumatic way to help them get out of the box? Perhaps not. That might be an adventure to attempt, even if it would only result in exasperating failure.

Perhaps, like the ecumenical discussion (http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/05/the-uncertain-future-of-protestantism), we should always lean toward this: “Those hoping for a hard-hitting debate, or a quick and full resolution of the questions, were bound to be disappointed: the three interlocutors were much too patient, irenic, and thoughtful for that. No, it was a conversation, and like almost all good conversations, inconclusive, an invitation to further conversation.”

Participating in these discussions well requires high levels of creativity, independent thought, logical thinking, language proficiency, confidence, vocabulary, contextual knowledge, theological understanding and social skills that many do not have. They fear that, if they were to jump into these discussions, they would be at such a disadvantage that they would look foolish.

I hate to say this, but I’ll just be honest. To bring lots of current ubf members into these discussions, we would literally have to re-adopt the ubf dialect. We would have to dumb down the use of language to the level of standard ubf reports and messages. We would have to fence in our discussions, observe the unwritten ubf customs and laws and taboos, use honorary titles, give preferential treatment and honorific salvos to elders, disagree with one another only in indirect ways, and so on. Only then would ubf members join the discussion in significant numbers, because only then would they feel safe.

My attempt here has been because as I mention
“I want to balance the claims and stories I have told with good things I have observed about UBF, and the grace that God has given to me here.”

I know that the dialog is usually negative. I wanted to change that by giving all the good things I have seen, since nobody from UBF really wants to give people the time of day here. I spoke with some students in the Philippines who said they disliked this site, NOT because it said negative things about UBF or what not. But that “I don’t like arguing and conflict.” That is what is many times presented here. Of course I am not trying to say that we should censor or even disallow topics. But maybe people need to write more neutral articles occasionally.

They just don’t feel comfortable forming and expressing their own opinions, except within certain narrow constraints sanctioned by their leaders and peers. The discussions here are too free, too wild, too unpredictable, too unsafe. They never learned how to swim in the waters of dialogue and don’t know how to handle the negative emotions that come up if someone openly disagrees with them. This is especially true of elders and leaders. They have so shielded themselves from disagreement, opposition, confrontation, etc. that if someone were to openly point out that they might be wrong, they wouldn’t know how to react. They fear that their own reactions would make them look foolish.

UBF can be very good indeed. Your points are valid:
>>Discipline , Bible Reading , Prayer , Community<<

The first three points I will say help each one of us to take hold of our faith (or the Bible) and get to know it as best as we can. The last point is great, but it hits off all of the negative aspects of our experience.

Discipline to God is important. We can only become disciplined to God when we come to God. By that we can only read our Bible and pray. Discipline in UBF takes the shape of your weekly routine: Bible study with your SHEPHERD, Bible study with your SHEEP, tesimony writing, meetings…how many times…the SWS and so on. It can be a rigourous engagement, but it can be beneficial in that you are no longer intimidated to simply read through the Bible. The intimacy between you, God and his word is the best discipline I could have taken from coming in to UBF.

Bible reading gives us a sense of history, of law, of grace, of mercy, of sacrifce, of order….of God….of Jesus.

Prayer helps us to depend on God and to know God. It helps us to control our impulsive nature and helps us to live by the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Yes, prayer in UBF is abundant. However, regulated and scripted prayer is unnatural. I have experienced more than once "so-called" prayer evenings whereupon we have been given pre-selected prayer topics and after several minutes we are frequently interrupted from our prayer so that we may listen to someone lecturing or even to engage some worship songs. Maybe this is my problem, but I have difficulty disconnecting with God in prayer to sing a song when everyone else wants to sing a song or to listen to that person just because they said it is time to listen to them. When I pray to God it can last a couple of moments or several hours – I never know. So, how sincere are we when we "pray" on command and in regulated intervals?

Community is fantastic. There are many benefits, and indeed we are like family who do not always get along. BUT, I have stated this before. Many people are not so much interested in YOU, the once redeemed sinner. They are rather interested in your ability to increase the numbers and obey the weekly regulations. I wish I could say that I have close friends within UBF. I cannot really say that I do. In Korea, I am limited, because of time, status and language. Time because of my job and my family responsibilities. Status, because I am married with children and not single any longer. Language, because even though I am getting by, it can still be difficult even if I am comfortable in a situation.

Don't get me wrong, community can help to build us up and it can help us to share Christian values. But in my years to date within UBF I have seen people leave and it is an ugly reality. It is like they had never been friends with the people there at all. So, are we really friends or not? I may be a stinker, but I have no desire to be friendly to people just because I can carry out a task in the church. I am friendly because Christ has worked in me and now I want to simply have Christian fellowship. Nothing more, nothing less.

I want to add here about the hostility of ubfriends. Take a look around. Examine the articles. Many theological contributions have been made and are still being made. But, presently people are still looking for dialogue on UBF. It is not Joe, Ben and Brian and a few more who desire to talk about UBF, but it seems to return that way. The difficulty of theology is just that – theology. Not everyone reads or can comment much more than a simple agreement. However, everyone has an opinion and a comment about their experience in UBF. It is certainly something relatable. If ubfriends discussions are in fact negative then something must be done to change the atmosphere from inside UBF.

If people want theology then contribute theology. If you want Christian living then contribute that. But, if we need to highlight some failings of UBFs shallow analysis of the Bible and screwy doctrine then we will do just that. UBF is not all bad, but for how long have we been discussing the same issues that are actually not very difficult to repair in principle? But, the people in the system are not so willing are they?

At present, I can say many things in my heart that address observations and experiences in the context from non-Koreans. I have been surrounded by cultural aspects for more than a decade adn have been living here now several years. The latest in the news over here has been terrible. But, I will say plainly one thing. At the end of the winter I visited my family back home for about ten days. When I returned to Korea I knew I was returning home. Now, who is to say I am staying? Only God knows, but even as my family does prepare to return to my country in one year I face the ongoing reality that God has kept me here much longer than six months against the will of my previous chapter director.

I don’t like this article because I hear self-justification. It’s like saying “I criticized ubf, now I have to say something good to get ubf people off my back”.

I also don’t like it because it is entirely experience-based. We already know and agree there are pockets of the good things expressed here. Does reporting on such positive experience do much to move us toward reconciliation? I’m glad to get a glimpse into forests life, and so grateful that he is not experiencing the bad things most of us did, but beyond that, what response is there to this article?

Yes, I would like this website to feel more kind, gentle and welcoming. There are some people out there who claim they don’t want to participate in these discussions because they are afraid that they will treated badly by us.

But there are also many people out there who won’t ever post a comment because they are afraid of the fallout it will bring from friends, family members and leaders in UBF.

Should we strive for a kinder, gentler, more welcoming atmosphere on UBFriends? Absolutely. We should do it because it’s the right thing to do.

Would that result in more people coming into these discussions? Probably not.

1. What conversation is there to be had when someone says something positive about ubf? How can we respond? The only answer is just “Amen” or “Ok that’s your experience.”. The bottom line is that there is not much to talk about when someone says something good about ubf. We all know and accept there are good things about ubf. We don’t need change or discussion on those points.

2. People are drawn into conversations here because we are the only ones who actually spark dialogue about real issues, directly and head-on. People are fed up with the silence and the run-arounds. And the issues that need discussing are indeed negative in nature and often messy to discuss.

3. We had a 40 day rest during Lent. Where were all those ubfers who are SO interested in dialogue? It was clear that Joe and I would not comment during Lent. Chris and Vitaly have been taking a break for the most part. Were were the ubf people? If anyone wanted a safe place to talk, that would have been the time. Heck I’ll take another 40 days off if someone wants to try that experiment again.

4. What most ubf loyalists want is for us to go away and be silent. So the loyalists just want to click “like” and move on, hearing the same self-praise they always here in ubf to stroke their egos.

5. The double-agents (perhaps JohnY and DavidW) who are in between ubf and ex-ubf seem to only comment when something blows up, then they say, Don’t blow up. Then they become silent again. So from my perspective, all I see from the in-betweeners are angry rebukes to be more “peaceful and safe”.

6. Maybe we all could just continue the dialoge and make up some new ground rules?

7. We know what invokes PTSD reactions here from former members. So maybe we can avoid those discussions.

8. What would ubf people like to talk about? Where are all the topics?

So it seems that those who like pro-UBF articles like this one do not comment. As someone suggested, is it because if they say something positive about UBF, they get blasted?

I can think of quite a few people who tried to engage and comment here, but as David said yesterday, they likely stopped doing so, because virtually all their comments favorable to UBF were simply ripped apart, sometimes with vitriolic sarcasm and condescending ridicule.

Was this done perhaps as ruthlessly, mercilessly and condescendingly as some felt and expressed about their own experience from the way their respective UBF leaders/shepherds/chapter directors treated and abused them….all in the name of shepherding for their own good?

That’s putting it lightly, but yes you are correct. The good thing that might go unnoticed is that you will not be tagged for dead dog training. At most you will have to deal with some odd looks and minor annoyances from ubf loyalists. Thank God for the reform movements of 1976, 1989, 2000 and 2011. If not for those brave men and women speaking up, we’d all have red pepper in our eyes.

But as you said, any good thing can easily become corrupted and evil even through good Christian men and women through whom the goodness came. This is not an excuse or a justification, but a reality of life. Thus, always, always, always, we need God’s mercy and grace, especially yours truly.