Comments on: How I Experienced God

By: MattC

Sat, 19 Jul 2014 03:11:56 +0000

This is probably way past your sermon now, but I wonder if I can add some fuel to the proverbial fire.

*Do I sense a tendency to, when challenged with a very difficult topic to speak about, share one’s testimony as a roundabout way of introducing the topic?
*I wonder at the present-future reality of God’s kingdom. Definitely, we see the fact that the kingdom is real in our lives, in our submission to its coming.
*The imminent arrival of the fullness of His Kingdom gives nobility and a foundation to the church, no?
*The “near-ness” of the kingdom reveals itself in blessing, repentance and community?
*Perhaps some settle on the idea of Church-as-Kingdom and this is a theme that we need to understand more in our time?

Just some thoughts

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By: bekamartin

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 22:16:58 +0000

Ben, thank you for these thoughts. I feel this one was your best one yet. I, too, experienced God’s love and grace more powerfully, his presence more fully, when I sinned against him and my husband of almost 19 years when I looked inappropriately on a member of our church and thought I was in love with him. (he didn’t feel the same way for me) I prayed desparately to God to change my heart and mind, while continuing to dwell on my thoughts and feelings. When I finally did repent (turn away from) my sin and turn to God and my husband, I received God’s rescue. But the entire time I was in this, I knew God’s love and grace and felt his presence even so. God is so gracious to lead us back to himself from our sin.

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By: Anon.

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 17:19:01 +0000

Ben, I appreciate your articulation on the nexus between God’s kingdom and the church. For sure, in American culture, it’s difficult to understand the communal aspects of both, so this is a challenging concept to communicate.

I like your route of relying heavily on the experiential aspect of it. If I could give some push-back though, I’d say that your experience sounds a bit too majestic or charmed. What I mean is that the kingdom of God has not yet been fully consummated. So we see shadows of the kingdom on this earth (your marriage, children a loving community such as WL, etc.) and conversely the kingdom spilling or breaking into our reality (your heavenly conversion, deeper revelation of biblical truths).

But I would say that overall, our earthly experience of the kingdom is bitter-sweet; the already but not yet concept. God’s kingdom is coming into our reality but we still live in a fallen world. Our spouses and children are truly an undeserved gift of mercy from the Lord, but at the same time we are all flawed and thus cause each other angst. The same goes for relationships within the church community and so forth. We battle with indwelling sin and this taints our experience of the kingdom; we are not as proficient, skilled, empathetic, etc. as we would like to be. Generally speaking, we are often times vexed in this life, but we have hope in God’s final promise.

You could unpack this concept in many ways. For instance,
* how does the reality of the kingdom augment my outlook on my marriage or congregational relationships when things get rough or when they go well?
* Does a robust theology of the kingdom solve our interpersonal problems or prevent us from idolizing our blessings and if so how?

A sermon on this topic that would resound with me is one that meets me in the reality of this tumultuous, yet joyful already but not yet state of being. Perhaps Christ is the best example of one who lived with both unspeakable angst and joy while on earth.

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By: Ben Toh

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:07:16 +0000

Frank Viola identified 14 metaphors for the church: http://www.churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/161542-14-anatomy-metaphors-for-the-church-to-reach-the-world.html

Justin Taylor expressed them similarly: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/05/16/new-testament-metaphors-for-the-church/

Here’s a graphic: http://urbangracetacoma.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/All-Metaphors1.jpg

Do offer and propose some “simple” way to share this.

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By: Ben Toh

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:55:26 +0000

Thanks, Joe. I was afraid someone would say that! But you’re quite right. My totally disorganized and random thoughts about kingdom and church so far, which I refrained from articulating, are:

* The kingdom arrived with the coming of Christ (Mk 1:15), who is himself the manifestation of the kingdom.
* The prayer of God’s people should be for the kingdom to come (Mt 6:10; Lk 11:2), not for people to go to heaven.
* The kingdom must be sought as of foremost priority by the people of God (Mt 6:33).
* The kingdom is within people (Lk 17:2).
* The gospel of the kingdom is what should be preached to all nations (Mt 24:14).
* The old kingdom is passing away and the new is coming (Rev 21:1).

* The church is built by Jesus (Mt 16:18), who is the head of the church (Eph 1:22; 5:23; Col 1:18).
* Unresolved conflicts are to be dealt with by the church (Mt 18:17).
* The church should be the expression and representation of the Living God, and the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Tim 3:15).

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By: Timothy Ha

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:29:03 +0000

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By: Joe Schafer

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:00:38 +0000

Ben, it’s worthwhile to talk about how we have experienced God. But unless I missed something, you didn’t say very much about kingdom and church. Yes, expounding on theology can be dry and boring. But it can also be interesting and provocative, especially when you articulate and address the questions that are on peoples’ minds. The relationship between kingdom and church has been a source of misunderstanding and confusion for me and many of my generation. I will try to pose some of these questions when I have time.

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