Comments on: To be or not to be…a shepherd http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14846 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:49:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14846 “Hamlet is making a choice between suicide and life. That is nearly the extent of the option given by UBF leaders. Unless you are a Shepherd you are not following Jesus and without Jesus you are dead.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14844

Wow! Now that’s escalating things quite a bit… I’m not sure I would use that articulation (maybe I have in the past?).

Given the Robin Williams event however, and the numerous suicides related to ubf, we really should discuss this more deeply. Indeed, many in ubf have taken a vow unto death to be a “holy soldier”. That leads to life/death type thinking that becomes harmful.

The salvation of the world really really does not depend on whether ubf shepherds exist or not. Yes ubf shepherds have at times intervened at just the right moment in young person’s life. But they really need to drop the self aggrandizing act. They are not so important.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14845 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:40:43 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14845 Thanks for writing this forest. I see things similarly. Maybe even more radically, I totally stopped believing in the idea that God has a fixed ready-made plan for everybody. Do good fathers have fixed plans for their children? Do I have a fixed plan for my son? Sure, I have certain ideal conception how he should live, what he should study etc. But would I stop blessing and loving him if he develops differently? Certainly not. Would I not allow him going loop ways, or pursuing different goals in different phases of his life? Certainly not. I believe the same is true for God. He gave us a free will and many possible paths to go and ways to live a meaningful life. We are free to choose any of them. I found that it really limits people if they believe that there is only one path to follow, that they must find and that their life would be a failure if they don’t follow that one predetermined path or calling. I also found that the word “calling” in the Bible has a much more universal meaning with which the word was loaded in UBF, namely the universal “heavenly calling”, not some concrete service or activity like being a campus Bible teacher. There is no such “calling” in the Bible. Instead, the Bible talks about various “gifts”. We should try to find our gifts and use them. Being a Bible teacher is actually a gift, and not everybody has that gift (1 Cor 12:29). So the basic concept of UBF, the expectation taht everybody they invite has automatically the calling and gift to be a Bible teacher is fundamentally flawed. No wonder that in my ten years of UBF, we never studied 1 Cor 12.

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14844 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:27:25 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14844 I should maybe be a little clearer, my chapter has not been pushy around my acceptance of the title. I made it clear what I wanted and they have been respectful. When I say “ubf leaders”. I mean “some UBF leaders”. The ones from this man’s chapter fall into that category, mine does not.

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14843 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:23:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14843 I am pleased you liked it Brian. I was concerned I was going to have to explain a lot of “You didn’t mentioned x,y,z…”. As for the “to be or not to be…” I chose it because of the nature of Hamlet’s words:

“To be, or not to be, that is the question—
Whether ’tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die, to sleep—
…
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveler returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all…”

Hamlet is making a choice between suicide and life. That is nearly the extent of the option given by UBF leaders. Unless you are a Shepherd you are not following Jesus and without Jesus you are dead. It is never quite stated that way, but their actions with the man indicated as such. It hasn’t been presented to me in such a way, but I have been prepared to deal with the situation for a time now. So my advice to him was that it is not so much a choice of life and death, but as you said- one of many paths, and someday that path might take you elsewhere. We should know where we are going, we should be told up front what it means to be a ubf “shepherd”, and with that in mind we should know what is gospel and what is a narrow view of the gospel that is preplanned by people who have no authority to control such.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14842 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:09:13 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14842 From my subjective sentiment, there is an unspoken spiritual hierarchy that is always implicitly present and implicitly communicated, but perhaps not necessarily the distinction between shepherd and one to one Bible teacher.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14841 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:43:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14841 Ben that is a nuance that’s been lingering in the back of my mind… What is the difference between “shepherd” and “one to one bible teacher”?

In our part of ubf, a shepherd was a higher-class than bible teacher. In other words, if someone didn’t display enough loyalty and obedience to earn the shepherd title, they were prayed for becoming a “one to one bible teacher”.

Anyone else notice this? Or was it just in our chapter?

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14840 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:39:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14840 Forests, I forgot to say that this morning I was just about to consider writing a post with the title: “Being a One to One Bible Teacher” when I saw your post with almost similar points that I wanted to state.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14839 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:24:50 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14839 He had some help :)

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14838 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:24:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14838 Thanks for sharing this, Forests! I am super glad that these kinds of conversations are going on. My hope is that the discussions will continue to increase greatly. This is the kind of communication that needs to go on for a ministry to have any chance of being healthy. I’m glad that such discussion can now happen instantly, globally and simultaneously, and most of importantly– without any supervision from ubf leaders.

Overall, I would simply say “bravo” to your words to your friend. Especially I am glad that you refer to him as “the man”, meaning, you are treating him like the adult he is. So often adults at ubf are treated as “little ones” and children who can’t think for themselves. You’ve provided a bit of fresh air just by doing that.

Here are my principles I generally follow when someone contacts me about ubf:

1. I listen to their story. Often people reach out to me because there was no one who took their concerns seriously at their ubf chapter or because they didn’t feel safe asking their questions.

2. I share my story, if relevant. I point them to my blogs and books if they want to know more about me. I make it clear that I am me, and they are they. My choices were made in my context, and they shouldn’t just follow me.

3. I encourage them to make their own decisions. A ubf sheep is conditioned to not make their own decisions. So I remind them of all the times in Scripture where it is mentioned about our conscience. We need to have our own conscience and to pay attention to how we feel.

4. The bottom line is that I poke into their understanding of the gospel. I ask questions about the gospel, share what I’ve learned about the gospel and point them to numerous non-ubf resources about the Christian gospel.

Side note: I chose the 3 arrow picture for your article, Forests, because for so many years I was trapped by the false dichotomy of “be a shepherd” or not. The “not” was painted as a very bleak picture, so I stumbled blindly, numbly onward. The decision to be a shepherd or not doesn’t have only two choices. There are many choices and as you say, we must understand the scope and consequences of those choices.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/08/14/to-be-or-not-to-be-a-shepherd/#comment-14837 Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:13:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8252#comment-14837 Thanks, Forests, My spontaneous thought is that it took you just a few years in UBF to figure out and articulate clearly what it took me a few decades to barely begin doing! I have to just say, “Good job!”

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