Comments on: From Certainty to Uncertainty http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-19402 Thu, 10 Sep 2015 19:23:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-19402 Neat Post.

Indeed for me, Certainty has become Christ.

Interesting the mention about other ministries having some of the same attitudes about other ministries. In particular, it seems that ministries that heavily emphasize the study of Scriptures including memorization, seem to be “prone” to this kind of attitude.

Something tells me there is a mechanism in the spirit of a person that gives us a sense of certainty and rightness, which we can rationalize even from portions of Scripture, yet locks us away from God as much as we feel we are near to him.

Of course, scripture study and memorization of the words are of greater worth than we can imagine. Yet we must still put uncertainty into God’s hands and be willing to let him surprise us with what he does and allows in our lives . . .

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-19400 Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:10:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-19400 A 1 year reminder from Facebook. I realize that those who live in certainty incline toward arrogance and condescension, while those who live in doubt incline toward humility and generosity.

]]> By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15194 Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:33:41 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15194 Thought of this tweetby Benjamin Corey. I’m at a point where I don’t trust much of what I have learned about the Bible, ministry, church, family, Christianity, and how I have learned it, so that I need to go and learn it newly. Where certainty also made me arrogant, blind, insensitive, and so on, I find that in my time of uncertainty and facing uncertainties I have to be careful to not impose those on others as well, being certain of my uncertainties.

]]> By: Fiona http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15173 Sat, 13 Sep 2014 14:52:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15173 Thank you!

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15172 Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:39:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15172 Welcome and thanks for sharing, Fiona. I think that your comments and experience do resonate with many, especially with those under a dominant, dogged, domineering leader who loves to call the shots and who are unable to be called to be accountable. May God bless you and your family on your journey of faith.

]]> By: Fiona http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15171 Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:12:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15171 When I read your article, I realized many overlaps with what I had been told during my time in UBF. Now after almost 2 years of quitting it is hard for me to understand how I could have been so “blind”. But maybe this is because whenever I tried to criticise the practices or certain persons I was told that there is something wrong with my faith and that I had a problem with obedience and that I should repent on my sin and accept God’s control over my life. Today I know that it was not God’s control but the one of the leaders… Still I miss most of the people that I co-worked with very intensively. But there was no way of staying, because I felt too much oppressed and forced to adapt to the “rules”. Today, my husband and me are attending the service in another church in our city and we want our daughter to grow up with nothing else than Jesus as the Lord of her life. Thank you for this clear article, Ben!

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15170 Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:18:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15170 I didn’t realize how funny “blow your bubble” is. I was going to change and edit it to “burst your bubble,” but I guess I’ll leave it.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15169 Thu, 11 Sep 2014 03:27:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15169 “Sorry to blow anyone’s bubble…”

THAT has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read!! Sorry but I’m laughing too hard to even remember what this post was about…

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15166 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:24:10 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15166 Indeed, Francis Bacon said some true things. This one has often been quoted on UBF forums: “Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.” But the most famous is this one ;-)

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15165 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:11:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15165 Very good points. As I grow older, most of these certainties are fading away, but a few are only growing in me. Such as “God is love”.

Ben, I appretiate that you clarified “I developed these absolute certainties because my church communicated these certainties”. This is an important point. To be more precise, it was not so much your church, but your personal shepherd and trainer, and it was not just “communicated” but rather systematically “inaculated” and “trained”. If a church simply communicated such things to you, you would not believe it so easily. It is necessary that such things are repeated and emphasized obsessively and that people get punished, shamed, shunned or rebuked if they disregard these “certainties” in order to make people internalize them as their own certainties.

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15164 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:10:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15164 Begin with certainty and you will end in doubt, begin with doubt and you will end in certainty.- Francis Bacon

]]> By: cth http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15163 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:22:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15163 And to be fair, UBF isn’t the only church that thinks it’s superior to every other church. Geoff grew up going to a Plymouth Brethren church that was very focused on Bible study and Bible memorization, and he says he also believed the same thing about his church and Plymouth Brethren Christians.

]]> By: cth http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15162 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:20:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15162 hi dad, I think you meant “burst anyone’s bubble,” not blow :). I grew up believing all the things on your list. Wow. I remember as a child/teen wondering why we even sang hymns from a hymnal that was not written by UBF people. Because it couldn’t possibly be that there were sincere Christians outside of UBF, or existing before UBF came around and began “pioneering” the world…

]]> By: David W http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15159 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:44:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15159 This is a quote from Peter Enns upcoming book, The Bible Tells Me So:

“Sweating bullets to line up the Bible with our exhausting expectations, to make the Bible something it’s not meant to be, isn’t a pious act of faith, even if it looks that way on the surface. It’s actually thinly masked fear of losing control and certainty, a mirror of an inner disquiet, a warning signal that deep down we do not really trust God at all.”

This is how I used to handle the bible text, not so much from what I learned in UBF but more so from evangelicalism in general.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/09/10/from-certainty-to-uncertainty/#comment-15158 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:05:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8336#comment-15158 Incidentally, this is my spontaneous random written testimony for the day after reading the excellent post Joe shared on facebook.

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