Comments on: John 10 Testimony

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:33:06 +0000

Another way of seeing this is that one metaphor shouldn’t be taken so far that it contradicts another. If we look at a potter to the clay, we can see the potter does not really care for the pot outside of its usefulness, but we see that a father loves his son in a way no artist could.

By: forestsfailyou

forestsfailyou — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:30:45 +0000

I know I was taught that the metaphor should only go so far as it does not break the message of the gospel, or violate the guidance of the holy spirit. If my metaphor gives me permission to beat someone with a baseball bat then that metaphor has went to far.

By: Chris

Chris — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:52:40 +0000

Fully agree with you on this, Ben.

The problem is not only that leaders usurp the role of the good shepherd in the hearts of their sheep, but also that they believe they don’t need a shepherd for themselves. This became apparent to me when Samuel Lee once wrote in his newsletter “since I did not have a human shepherd, I chose the Apostle Paul as my shepherd.” Did it never come to his mind to choose Jesus as his shepherd?

Btw, this is the point where the whole “shepherding/discipling” paradigm breaks together: The man at the top of the pyramid, who allegedly is the most spiritual and mature of all, is the only one without a personal shepherd, when the same paradigm claims that you absolutely need a personal shepherd to mature spiritually!?

By: BrianK

BrianK — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:05:20 +0000

Thanks for sharing Forests. You raise an important point that is relevant to our discussions, I think. How far do we take metaphors, particularly the metaphors found in the bible? What can we learn from other non-biblical metaphors, such as about frogs in ponds and fish in fishbowls?

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:13:44 +0000

Lovely metaphors, Forests. (Referring to you as Forests, reminds me of Forest Gump!)

A problem I’ve noticed is that Jn 10:11 is an indicative: “I am the good shepherd.”

But unfortunately, whenever I’ve heard this message preached on, it becomes an imperative: “You (absolutely) must be a good shepherd.”

It brings to mind this quote: “A text without a context becomes a pretext for a proof-text.”