Comments on: How do other people react to you? http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15503 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:38:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15503 Ben, I don’t understand why you wrote that sermon. What is the purpose? What value is there to show a link between faith and obedience? There is a link, to be sure. But your notes left me confused.

Nothing in that sermon makes me want to obey anything or anyone. And I still see no command that requires me to obey the OT Law.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15502 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:19:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15502 I agree that the foundational underlying impetus and motivation for a Christ follower is love.

But an expression of love is obedience to the command to love God, to love others, even to love one’s enemy. So even though one is obeying the command to love, their underlying sentiment, emotion and attitude is one of love. Yet, obedience is involved.

I know that obedience has sadly been used to guilt trip and coerce Christians to “do what they’re told.” Like you, I reject this as being unsound and can easily bind people not to the gospel but to something or someone else.

Feel free to critique this inseparable connection between faith and obedience: http://westloop-church.blogspot.com/2014/09/faith-and-obedience.html

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15501 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:58:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15501 Just repeating some words about how “outlaw preachers” began:

“The idea of Outlaw Preachers originated with Jay Bakker, in the spring of 2009. In response to a specific question Jay said, “Well I guess I’m just an Outlaw Preacher.”

Shortly after that, Khad Young asked Brooklyn Jay’s permission to begin using the name on the internets. The response and participation was immediate. Now, almost a year an a half later, the Outlaw Preachers maintains an active Twitter account, Twitter hashtag, website, and Facebook. This December, we are holding the first annual Outlaw Preachers (re)Union in Memphis, Tennessee.”

source

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15500 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:58:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15500 MJ, regarding your first question: I don’t know the context of the Bonhoeffer quote and what he meant with it (the book is still on my reading list), but I’m pretty sure that Bonhoeffer had a community in mind that is much different from UBF. When you say living in community and living alone is mutually exclusive, this sounds much like you have a group like UBF in mind, a community which totally absorbs you and takes posession of you, so that you don’t have much time alone and don’t have much interaction with other friends and communities any more. This is not the normal case, however. Brian already gave the example of a monastery where you have as much time alone. A healthy church should give people also enough time to be alone and with people from outside the church. Even within my small family, which forms a very close community, I give my son enough time to be alone (this year he was alone in England) or time to be together with his circle of friends outside of my family. And yes, the virtual community of “ubfriends” is a kind of community, too, but very different from a community like UBF. Here, nobody pressures you to be online every week or write an article every week, and nobody controls jealously whether you visit other communities at the same time. It’s an open, non-demanding, non-exclusive community without pressure, without forcing you to make commitments. It does not claim to have authority over you or your life style. You can come and go any time and discuss what’s really on your mind. That’s so different from the kind of community that Brian and other ex members need to detox from.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15498 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:10:21 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15498 So in short, to me, to be an outlaw preacher means I am indeed not a Christian in the current Western sense and I will not try to obey the OT Law.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15497 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:06:54 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15497 MJ, you also asked:

“Another question I have is that you write, “outlaw pastor.” What does that mean?”

I don’t like the term “pastor” :) The term is “outlaw preacher”. I began explaining what this means on my Lambhearted Lion blog.

The short story is that an outlaw preacher is not anything organized or has any kind of membership. It simply means someone/anyone who subscribes to two ideas:

1) The only debt outstanding is love.

2) Jesus fulfilled all the OT Law and Prophets.

Notice I did not say I reject morality nor do I reject law itself. I am not an antinomian and I am not an anarchist. I merely believe that the basis of morality and law is and should be love.

I believe what the bible says in Galatians, specifically “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse…” We are no longer bound by the Law but by the Spirit, and bound to love not to obedience.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15496 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:01:18 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15496 Good questions, MJ. I think it would be worthwhile to have some deeper discussion on “Life Together” by Bonhoeffer. My first thought in response is that he seems to be describing joining a monastery. That is my one criticism of that book. He lays out some amazing thoughts, but in one chapter he expresses those thoughts in a very specific way. It would seem we all should join the monks’ lifestyle if we truly want to please God.

So in most of his book, he does seem to speak of the universal body of Christ, as you put it. But he often seems to speak in light of an actual, specific monastical community.

And yes, I consider my online virtual communities as real communities, with pro’s and con’s compared to in-face communities. Human beings are involved and interacting in both, but in different ways.

]]> By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15495 Mon, 13 Oct 2014 00:53:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15495 “Because I spent so much time in community, I am compelled to take some years to detox and learn how to live alone before returning to a community. I find that the online, virtual communities such as ubfriends and outlaw preachers, helps me in my journey.”

But those “online, virtual communities” are communities too. I don’t understand the Bonhoeffer quote, “Only in the community do we learn to be properly alone; and only in being alone do we learn to live properly in the community. It is not as if one preceded the other; rather both begin at the same time, namely, with the call of Jesus Christ.” How can living alone and living in community start at the same time? Aren’t they different? But I guess you cannot have one without the other because without the concept of community, one would not know what “alone” meant. And with you Brian even though you consider this time of your life now as a detox, you are still part of a community, albeit virtual, but still it’s a community. No man is an island I guess.

Another question I have is that you write, “outlaw pastor.” What does that mean? Are there legal and illegal pastors? I don’t understand how community works. Maybe I should read, “Life Together.” In man-made communities it is by invitation-only and there are a lot of hoops to jump through. But God is the exact opposite of that. So is the body of Christ somewhere in the middle? Isn’t entry to the universal body of Christ free?

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15492 Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:14:04 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15492 I think it is a closed group, Ben. You have to be invited :)

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/12/how-do-other-people-react-to-you/#comment-15490 Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:51:15 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8435#comment-15490 It’s very very sad when “Christians” condemn others to hell with their words.

I tried to find your post on Progressive Christian Alliance in order to read some of the responses but could not find it. Is there a link to your post?

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