Comments on: Atonement Lessons From Losing My Dog And Cat http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15705 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 01:19:45 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15705 Very very sorry and sad to hear this, even if I’ve heard this many times before. I pray that such things do eventually become addressed. But unfortunately some/many think that because this happened “a long time ago,” then we should just “forgive and forget,” and “just move on.” I personally do not agree with such an attitude or mindset, and in fact find it quite reprehensible and utterly irresponsible.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15701 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 00:08:26 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15701 Another story regarding UBF and dogs: I remember a girl from Chicago who was sent to my chapter in Germany to marry a “German shepherd” (sorry for the pun, that was not the story yet). As usual in UBF, the whole marriage was not her idea, but a deal between her shepherd and our German director, and she had big reservations. She requested several things of her husband. One was to be allowed to have a dog – in fact she had a dog in Chicago (not sure whether this was because she was a young American girl whose parents did not belong to UBF and the dog belonged to her family or whether, as you claim, dogs were nothing unusual in Chicago UBF). The German shepherd agreed to everything. But after they married she was not allowed to have a dog. The other agreements were broken as well. That’s why the girl became critical of UBF. After only one year the German shepherd who was considered the “Abraham of faith” and most holy shepherd in German UBF filed for divorce and remarried. Both divorce and remarriage was the orientation given by Samuel Lee, who also selected the 2nd wife.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15689 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:31:15 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15689 In my opinion when you simply tell your story as is, as best you can, it connects and translates very well. It touches and stirs the heart and compels the reader to ponder and pray. Again, in my opinion, it is when there is added vitriol, anger, accusation, condemnation, even when it is justified, that it comes across as bashing. (For sure this is a very fine line.) Others may disagree, but the best articles and comments simply tells stories of what happened, as you did in this comment. It touches the heart.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15688 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:24:02 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15688 I got my cat in 2001. She was a scrawny sickly hungry abandoned kitten my son found in our alley and we nursed her back to health. SL passed in 2002. Having pets was never an issue in Chicago.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15684 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:16:21 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15684 Ben, I really liked this article.

You wrote that your cat was 13 years old, i.e. you got it shortly after the regnancy of Samuel Lee. Is this only coincidence? Did you have time to think about cats or dogs before?

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15683 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15683 Never needed to think about this problem in UBF, because in the 90s in German UBF, nobody had a pet as that was considered unspiritual. Except our director, who had an aquarium. He was the only one of us who had spare time since he did not have a day job, did not go fishing, did not have 1:1s, did not write sogams etc. But all other members had to faithfully do all of this and much more, and this did not leave us time to even think about a pet animal. You had to focus all your time on mission, not even on your own kids or family, much less waste your time with pets. Particularly a dog requires much time. You did not even think about such an idea. You had a mission. You had to fish 12 disciples on the campus, not care about dogs or any other distractions. That’s why I was so offended when JA some years ago defended UBF, while writing about dogs and posing on his blog cuddling his pet dog. Such a convenient and happy life. I thought “boy, you don’t know what reality in UBF was like at all, why do you defend it?” My wife was even told to stop breast feeding our baby in order to spare time for mission. How could we even *think* about having a dog? And I must add that my UBF chapter was not even the worst in Germany, Bonn was much more extreme.

Yes, I know, I’m a barking old dog who can only complain about the past and bash UBF. But that was our reality.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15682 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:30:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15682 An article about how to evangelize your dog:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2014/10/31/saving-my-dog-for-all-saints-eve-by-john-frye/

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15681 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:41:04 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15681 I was so greatly moved by this. I can recall that I have up my kitty in January. She had been diagnosed with feline aids and leukemia but by the grace of God lived 7 years. She always loved me so much.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15680 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:07:35 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15680 I generally and basically agree. The fact does remain that there are Christians and there are Christians over 2,000 years of church history, some of whom we agree with and others whom we disagree. But yes, love, peace, grace, mercy, forgiveness needs to prevail above all of our disagreements, no matter how intense.

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/10/29/atonement-lessons-from-my-dog-and-cat/#comment-15679 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:07:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8495#comment-15679 Ben,

I have much to say on this one…maybe I’ll write a book about it :)

My first thought is about the emphasis of Romans 3, that it is: “possibly the most important single paragraph ever written” and “the chief point, and the very central place of the Epistle, and of the whole Bible.”

Because we’ve done this elevation of these few verses, I see that we’ve skewed the gospel messages toward atonement debates. Certainly I love a good debate, but I am not in favor of elevating a few verses, now matter how great, to the status of exclusive status of defining the gospel.

We must check anything we learn from Romans 3 against other places. The gospel of peace is a good one to keep in mind when discussing Romans 3 and atonement theories. In fact, just few verses later, Paul brings up this point, in Romans 5:1 “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ…”

If our view of justification by faith does not end up with peace, we have strayed from the gospel even if we started with the gospel correctly.

So much division, discord and heartache could be avoided if more Christians would develop a deeper and more rich understanding of the manifold gospel.

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