Comments on: Prayers for the Church http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17087 Mon, 09 Mar 2015 10:30:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17087 there is a time to pray but a time to speak; a time for error but a time for correction, a time to accept but a time to refuse, a time to be loyal but a time to rebel..HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17086 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 23:34:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17086 In UBF we love the Bible and we love Bible verses, or at least I do. The Bible verse that all of UBF can rejoice in is Mt 10:27 and Lk 12:3!

“What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs” (Mt 10:27).

“What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs” (Lk 12:3).

“Social media, when combined with individuals who are no longer afraid and willing to speak out, make it harder to do those kinds of things and keep them secret. The spirit of fear is slowly dispelling.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17084

ONE WORD: SPEAK UP.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17084 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 13:30:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17084 Chris, I am quite certain that the kinds of things you mentioned are indeed going on. Those things thrive when they are done in darkness and kept secret. Fortunately we live in a different world now. Social media, when combined with individuals who are no longer afraid and willing to speak out, make it harder to do those kinds of things and keep them secret. The spirit of fear is slowly dispelling. UBF is in a state of turmoil.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17083 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 13:23:15 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17083 Joe, sure, that makes sense. As long as we see someting is really and sincerely moving, we can have patience. But keep in mind that there are also forces in UBF that actively resist any attempt to move. They will use the time to work *against* any attempts to repent or reform. We experienced it in the time of the reform movements, how they tried to discredit the ideas and personalities of the reformers, how they marginalized the “R-group” and spurred people on against them, how top leaders visited the directors and other critical members and talked them out of any ideas of reform, how they elected totally backward general directors like John Jun who guaranteed that no changes would be made.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17082 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:32:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17082 Chris, I agree with what you wrote. Time is of the essence, which is why I have been speaking up and applying more pressure and more focused pressure than I ever have. Repentance is necessary, and the first step in repentance is to be honest to yourself and to the world about what you have done.

I want to correct something that you wrote in your last comment. I did not agree to move slowly and deliberately in anything. But since I have pressed this matter now, I want them to be able to do a good job of responding to me right now. I won’t press them to answer my open letter within, say, 3 days if I see that a good-faith effort is being made and it seems likely that a better answer can come within, say, 7 days.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17081 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 08:43:33 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17081 Yes, we all understand that a strong leadership model where direction is given top down for everything, where leaders tell people qua their authority what they should do and what they should believe, is not Christian. However, leadership where you just do and speak what is right and set an example by doing so is completely ok. Offices such as “general director” or “president” are certainly not something Jesus had in mind for the NT church. But *if* you have such offices, then please do carry them out.

I understand why you agreed to move “slowly and deliberately” in these matters. But these are not only political matters, they are first of all spiritual matters. There is a real danger if things get delayed. You lose momentum and you weaken your conscience and those of others if you just wait. Acting like a child is better in spiritual matter (Mt 18:3). The child in the “emperor’s clothes” is a good example. Somebody must start to repent and speak the truth, and not wait for the majority (or even the king’s court) to agree whether the king has clothes or not. And repentance is always urgent, it must be done as long as the Spirit is blowing: “Today as you hear His voice, harden not your heart” (Heb 3:7). However, I don’t think the repentance or the following apology and changes must or can be done right with the “first shot.” You must just repent as sincere and best as you can at the given moment. And then you must continue to live that way, the more you start to understand, the more you need to repent – as Luther said, “the whole life of believers should be repentance.”

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17079 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 23:53:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17079 “At the end of our conversation, we prayed together in full agreement the four prayers posted here.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17074

That is good to hear.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17078 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 21:10:13 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17078 Chris, I understand what you meant. UBF’s model of leadership has been all about giving people strong direction. I believe we (you and I) understand the flaws in that leadership model, how it can’t really bring forth the fruit of the gospel. So in this matter, I think it does make sense for the leadership to move more slowly and deliberately, and to make sure they do it right. I do not want them to repeat the mistakes of the Toledo apology. They have only one shot to get it right.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17077 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 21:04:13 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17077 Chris, I agree. Leadership is required. But you cannot lead people where they refuse to go; there must be at least some willingness on their part. And there is a very real danger of the flock splitting apart if too many are unwilling. That might be unavoidable, but if it happens, that is tragic. The best outcome would be for the flock to move in the right direction while keeping them together. That is a tough job.

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17076 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 20:37:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17076 Thanks for your pertinacity, Joe.

I still expect the president to make clear where he personally stands in this matter, as well as using his influence to give others direction on what is ethical and Biblical here and what not. Isn’t UBF leadership all about giving people direction and being shepherds, i.e. being good examples and going ahead? A shepherd does not wait until the whole flock agrees about the way. If there is only one correct way, he simply goes ahead and shows the way.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17075 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 18:42:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17075 Thank God! Joe, I think that your efforts and Sharon’s efforts have led to a first major breakthrough to the UBF hierarchy, which has essentially and practically been untouchable and unaccountable over the last five decades! Praise God.

]]> By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17074 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 17:16:33 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17074 Sharon and I just finished a two-hour teleconference with some leaders from UBF headquarters. A great deal was said on a wide range of topics, much more than I can write about. They listened very closely to what we said and I believe they profited greatly from it.

Regarding the open letter I wrote last week, they are going to respond in two stages.

The first stage will be a brief letter from the President in which he responds to the questions as best he can, honestly and without spin. As some of you know, the UBF organization is not of one mind on some the issues that I raised. These internal disagreements will make it impossible for the President to make conclusive statements on behalf of the organization when there is no consensus yet. I hope we can all agree that it is best for him to be honest and truthful with us, giving us a benchmark for where the organization stands right now, rather than issuing statements that might not be true or making promises that might not be kept. I believe he will make a good faith effort to respond as best he can.

The second response will come later. It will be more substantial, with more details, and it will carry more weight, because it will have been vetted by at least two groups of senior leaders.

At the end of our conversation, we prayed together in full agreement the four prayers posted here.

]]> By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17057 Sat, 07 Mar 2015 00:43:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17057 motivating the troops/exciting endeavor to be part of:)
but real?:(

]]> By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17056 Fri, 06 Mar 2015 19:56:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17056 It’s funny how people can pray so differently. The prayer from Abraham Kim’s closing message of the 2014 SBC:

“Our one-to-one and small group Bible study and discipleship ministry may look insignificant in the eyes of the world. But the Lord works with us. Through our Bible study and discipleship God will throw the mountain of Europe and CIS’ secular humanism and hedonism into the sea, bringing a great spiritual revival to Europe and CIS. Amen.”

As long as UBF stays in such megalomaniac delusion, no repentance will be possible. UBF will revive Europe and CIS? They can’t even revive themselves.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17032 Thu, 05 Mar 2015 00:15:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17032 “Give us grace seriously to lay to heart the great dangers we are in by our unhappy divisions; take away all hatred and prejudice, and whatever else may hinder us from godly union and concord;… so we may all be of one heart and of one soul, united in one holy bond of truth and peace, of faith and charity, and may with one mind and one mouth glorify you, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#sthash.1gDieeLS.dpuf

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/04/prayers-for-the-church-2/#comment-17006 Wed, 04 Mar 2015 17:22:20 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9008#comment-17006 Praying.

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