Comments on: My Last Few Days in Chicago http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17278 Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:39:43 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17278 No surprises. Master manuscript writers, master editors.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17261 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 02:28:11 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17261 Very interesting. The part that Ron Ward mentioned that I quoted in the initial article was either ad libbed, or purposefully omitted from the publication.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17260 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 02:23:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17260 Here is the Ron Ward quote:

“One challenge: developing a Christ-centered, loving Christian community. Or stated differently, “practice what you preach.” As we have experienced the transition from a modern to a post-modern culture, the mindset of young people has changed. They no longer trust authority figures easily, nor do they accept philosophies that seek to explain the world around them in comprehensive terms. They have been disappointed by theories that sound good but end in disaster. They want to experience the reality of a message and test its integrity. After hearing the gospel message, they want to know the character of leaders and relate to them personally. So, we need to be deeply concerned about the character and integrity of our leaders. As Jesus did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life for others, so UBF leaders should follow Jesus in self-sacrifice, service and genuine love. This is how Jesus laid a good foundation for the early church.”

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17228 Thu, 19 Mar 2015 17:50:49 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17228 Yes. He moved to Chicago. He was employed as a seminary professor in St. Louis but then UBF hired him to teach classes to UBF pastors. So he gives online church history classes and produces material for leaders.

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By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17220 Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:15:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17220 Forests, is he in Chicago? He is a bright light in the UBF Conundrum.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17202 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:55:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17202 Yes. I cannot extoll high enough praised for him. Brilliant, humble, and kind- a great husband and father. He left shortly before I came to St. Louis, but I met him last year on the day I left for the Philippines.

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By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17197 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 03:22:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17197 Note, I meant to write, “to see Forest’s version of Jim R’s testimony compared to the UBF report.”

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By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17196 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 03:21:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17196 On the use of “the English” above, it would be graded as High Intermediate. Not bad, but a bit embarassing for someone who has been in the US for a while. One of the consistent problems is that individuals feel compelled to be “in control” and do not learn particular lessons well.

It’s VERY interesting to me to see Forest’s version of Jim R’s testimony. That’s the most info I’ve ever heard from it and reflects brokenness and healing. It reminds me again that the UBF culture “puppets” positive examples of native shepherds instead of really acknowledging them and valuing them. In fact, I’m pretty sure a very small percentage of UBF leadership knows the difference.

Forests, was the “Augustine Suh” the one who was in St. Louis for a number of years?

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17189 Sat, 14 Mar 2015 10:33:43 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17189 Speaking of English, I am compelled to share another English lesson that reveals some things that have been on my heart for many, many years. What I lost at ubf was the nuance of the English language (yes I know all you Russians and Germans will laugh because English is one of the least nuanced languages there is :) But bear with me. Spaceeba bolshoy :)

So here is my thought that weighs on me as I wake this morning: there is a difference between the phrase “cover up” and “cover over”, and our understanding of that difference may just tell us boat loads about our theology.

To “cover up” something means you hide it. You don’t fully reveal what happened. You share just enough to convey the message you want. This is how I was trained to deal with sin by ubf. Our theology taught us to cover up our sins and the sins of our leaders. It was better that way, we thought. We called such covering up as repentance. And we accepted the keeping face as God’s forgiveness. The gospel was that we could then continue on as honorable servants of God.

We learned how to share just enough about a situation to let people know to pray for us, but not enough to lose face. Because of this, we didn’t get to know each other very well. Eventually we all began to look the same to each other.

To “cover over” something means you bring it to light, accept the consequences and then learn the joy of forgiveness. Yes love covers over a multitude of sin, but to cover over is vastly different from covering up. How can sin be covered over by love? I contend that the process involves coming into the light.

I experienced this in a dramatic way here on ubfriends. Sure this is just a website. But this website has fostered a new community for me. For many years my conscience was bothered more and more by my illegal actions toward the late James Kim and his family. Breaking into his house, removing all his belongings, and then hiding the truck that contained those belongings, was wrongdoing. It was my sin.

When I confessed my sin to the ubf community, first privately, then with a few leaders, then with the Toledo chapter, I was met with a strong dose of the “cover it up” theology. I was told not to stir the pot. Why bring about trouble from so long ago? I was met with apathy. Who cares? This left me more and more agitated. If there is any reason I resigned my position as a ubf director, it was the way this event was handled.

What happened when I confessed my sin on ubfriends? Note that I did so on May 14, 2011. This is *before* I left ubf. I resigned on 7/4/2011 and officially left forever in December 2011 after my open letters. When I confessed my sin publicly, to the ubfriends community that was just getting started, I found the joy of forgiveness!

Reading the comments to my article left me in tears. Waves of light and love and life flooded over my soul. Finally I was cleansed. And now I am free. Yes the event is still there for anyone to read. But now my sin is covered over. I am not yoked by the burden of that sin anymore.

Then I was able to forgive myself. Later I wrote a poem about how it felt to come into the light.

So I ask again, can it be said that we love the light?

Some related Scriptures that come to mind and deserve more discussion are these: 1 Peter 2:16, 1 Peter 4:7-9, Luke 12:1-3, Psalm 32:5, Proverbs 17:8-10

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17188 Sat, 14 Mar 2015 02:32:24 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17188 The English here is middle school level

“Some guests came from far distance such as the St. Georgia UBF, the Montreal UBF, the Milwaukee UBF, the St. Louis UBF, and the Akron UBF.”

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17187 Sat, 14 Mar 2015 02:24:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17187 Interesting… “He shared three surprising victories that he had not anticipated.” Was “the three failures he didn’t anticipate”. I mean, maybe we didn’t listen to the same thing, or maybe he was struck hard in the head as he walked out. Who knows.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17180 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 21:03:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17180 If this report were to be fairly and unbiasedly graded by a English professor or even an English High School teacher, what grade would this report deserve??

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17177 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 20:09:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17177 This is SO true!

“We grossly covered three areas: (1) Motivation and necessity of campus ministry, (2) Historical and comparative review of campus ministry and (3) Practical examples by campus workers.”

Yes I imagine it was gross…

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17175 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:59:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17175 Well, I guess the pictures look great! But I’m wondering what a professional editor would say about the report at least with regards to content, accuracy, grammar, and how such a report would capture the interest and excitement of any reader.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17172 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:25:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17172 forests, you might find this interesting.

http://ubf.org/world-mission-news/north-america/campus-night-report

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17171 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 16:43:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17171 +1

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/03/12/my-last-few-days-in-chicago/#comment-17170 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:03:43 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9048#comment-17170 Thanks for sharing these insights, forests. You mention some noteworthy events that should not go unnoticed.

“But in that version of the story all the blame rested on the woman. Here Dr. Rabchuk says he was not ready to marry and did so hastily on the basis of her appearance. He said after 4 years his marriage fell apart along with the dream to be a Russian missionary.”

This is simply remarkable to hear someone finally telling the truth. That story about Jim’s first wife has been spin a thousand different ways, but no matter how you spin it, you just cannot get rid of the smell. In no way can this story be spun into a glory-story that glorifies God, although many have tried.

But notice what happens when Jim simply faces the facts? When he comes clean, the burden is lifted. We see the truth, and God is in fact glorified properly.

This is a prime example of what I’ve been looking for. 2 Corinthians 7 explains the evidence of the Spirit of Christ, and apart from these recent reports, I have not seen such a Spirit among ubf leaders. When this Spirit is not present, ubf is a harmful cult.

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