Comments on: Scapegoating, Ignatian spiritual practice, and the subversive gospels of Passion Sunday and Good Friday http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17421 Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:40:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17421 David, that article is a great example of why we all of us should call ourselves bible learners, and not many should claim to be bible teachers.

This is a great quote:

“[my purpose is] to show that even the most influential Christians who have changed the lives of countless people for good — Calvin being one of them — believed things that were surprising, shocking, and even outrageous.

So tread carefully the next time you come across another follower Jesus who doesn’t believe just like you do on every doctrinal point.
And when you’re tempted to burn them over a slow spit because of their “bad theology,” remember John Calvin — the man whom Charles Spurgeon said had a near flawless theology — and consider some of the other stuff the great Reformer believed.”

This is excellent advice in regard to individual Christians we encounter. When we meet “Calvin” the man, we should indeed extend grace. When encounter “Calvin” the system, or other systems of thought and various ideological systems, the advice doesn’t hold together very well. Often we must work to deconstruct systematic ideologies that enslave or harm or hinder the advancement of the kingdom of God.

]]>
By: David W http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17412 Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:02:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17412 #wowsers!

“If Christ himself came to Geneva, he would be crucified. For Geneva is not a place of Christian liberty. It is ruled by a new pope [John Calvin], but one who burns men alive while the pope at Rome strangles them first.”

Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankviola/shockingbeliefsofjohncalvin/#ixzz3XDlgzVSh

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17378 Tue, 07 Apr 2015 21:04:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17378 Joe, I finally read this great link, which I recommend everyone reads if you haven’t (http://boz.religionnews.com/2015/04/02/god-victim-child-abuse-survivor-taught-good-friday/). Anyone who has been abused (including in church) can relate to it. I used to think (or was made to believe) that anyone who accused UBF of anything is “Satan” and regarded it as “Satan’s attack.”

So instead of reaching out to the abused, I regarded the abused as abusing UBF by sharing their own stories of spiritual abuse by their respective “shepherds.” I am truly sorry that I did this for over two decades. I am sorry that “ubf” has done this corporately for ?five? decades.

I am especially sorry for those who continue to do so and who absolutely refuses to listen to or to address these real issues of spiritual abuse, both subtle and blatant, raised on this website (which is really tame and mild compared to resqueubf and the long detailed elaborate accounts found on other websites).

It is beyond sad and beyond being Christian when the one abused is accused by the abuser for abusing them whenever they share their own painful stories of being abused!

]]>
By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17376 Tue, 07 Apr 2015 20:49:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17376 Great article and to the point as always.

]]>
By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17375 Tue, 07 Apr 2015 18:47:55 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17375 Several years ago, when I came across the plethora of accounts published on the internet (many have been removed?? anyhow) and discussed this with “my shepherd,” I did not say much, saying to myself, either these events (various notorious accounts of SL) did not happen, or something happened and it was misreported and/or misremembered. Yet at the time I made a promise before God that if they were true, I could not tolerate anything like this. The point has come now that too many events which were minimized really did happen, and it has been covered up too much, much like Joe’s discussion of the scapegoat.

It is reasonable and essential for any “church” claiming the crucified Jesus as their Lord and King to learn how to acknowledge abuse of power and deal with it in reasonable ways.

I have so much respect for the Mars Hill church council and members–it was like a bee losing its sting and dying to “out” the problems with Mark Driscoll. No reward in this earth or in the house of idolatry, but God will see their courage and sacrifice for right and justice, and will bless them.

]]>
By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17374 Tue, 07 Apr 2015 18:20:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17374 Joe, I really appreciate your approach to the events of Good Friday.

It was very much scapegoating–the High Priest Caiaphas even said it would be better for Jesus to die for the sake of the nation.

The “Bible – A.D.” series that started on Easter, while seeking the elements of Game of Thrones~esque intrigue–did highlight Pilate and Caiaphas’s role, and I’m glad they did. As you have related, they wanted to cast him out in order to solve all their problems.

I will likely use some of the insights in this posting in my “Easter” “Crucifixion” message this Saturday during our Spring Conference.

Of course, you didn’t incite me to this on your own : ) I was deeply convicted that no one should come away from the message of the cross feeling very good about themselves, except to know that God has had mercy in spite of all our sins.

The cross doesn’t relieve us of responsibility–it enables us to take responsibility trusting in the love of God.

This doesn’t mean that if we are born again we do not worry about sins–individual or corporate–but that we have the courage to challenge the strongholds in our hearts, our families, our communities, by faith in God’s truth and love, and starting with repentance.

I too long for an “authentic” Easter experience instead of our own version (spring conference, new people share life testimony to introduce themselves, growing people serve messages, one leader keeps it all kosher with prayer topics . . .). I have had some wonderful times in these conferences yet the immensity of the gospel itself seems quite lost.

Of course, you can count on a cheapened version of the easter message/experience when all members involved are full time students/full time employees in addition to making up all kinds of shortcomings in ministry work.

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17371 Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:26:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17371 MY MSG TO SAE/OTHER NATIONAL clubs as well as religios/politicos:

the time has come, students/parents shall take campuses back from privileged international profiteers/puppiteers: we shall return to academics (the decades long lapse into corrupting/damaging/killing the young for profit has ended; the gangster control over leadership/membership of clubs-thus campuses-has ended.

“The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe.” – John Walter Wayland

REAL GENTLE(WO)MAN DO NOT NEED WEALTH OR POWER OR BOASTING TO SPEAK FRANKLY/EMPATHETICALLY, ACT WITH INTEGRITY, DEFEND OTHER’S RIGHTS/CONCERNS, BEHAVE DECENTLY WHEREVER (HONOR IS ONLY SACRED WHEN RIGHT; VIRTUE IS ONLY SAFE WHEN GOOD).

]]>
By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17367 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:40:28 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17367 “I seal this letter with a holy kiss.”

Brilliance. Pure brilliance. Will anyone read this and pay attention?

]]>
By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17366 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:30:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17366 “In fact, this is not a hypothetical. Jesus Christ has shown up and your church, and Jesus Christ has been kicked out. In the mystery of the Incarnation, Jesus has made his home among us, living right here in this messy, sinful, creaturely world.”

I struggle to find any words to respond because what you say in this entire article reflects so deeply with my own experience and understanding. Amen.

It is finished, and so am I.

It. Is. Finished.

]]>
By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17365 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:10:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17365 That’s him. Enough OCD chitchats for now.

]]>
By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17363 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 02:22:41 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17363 This guy?

http://retropets.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/Preview2/images/P-116.jpg

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17362 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:24:48 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17362 I guess scapegoating and gatekeepers are everywhere: http://www.keylife.org/articles/jesus-let-loose-steves-letter-april-2015

]]>
By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17361 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:52:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17361 Thanks MJ. I hope my article helps as you observe Good Friday by putting a different spin on the saying that “Christ died for our sins.” Tomorrow I want to stand up with my fellow Christians, not to identify myself as one the good people who love Jesus and got Jesus right, but as the one of those who sent Jesus to his death, calling him a bad man and saying “Let his blood be on us and our children.” It makes no sense for Christians to present ourselves as the good guys in the Passion story or in the world, because in so many ways we have been and continue to be on the side of those who scapegoat Jesus. We channel our sinful ideas and tendencies and project them onto others, and in doing so, we heap our sins onto Jesus, and not in a good way. The proper response for me on Good Friday when I see the cross is to shut my mouth and fall down in silent worship.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17360 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:45:16 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17360 I just realized that I am a direct descendant of St. Pugnacious, who loves celebrating the feast of Pugnacious not yearly but daily!

]]>
By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17359 Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:39:19 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17359 Thanks Forests. I admit that I don’t practice the examen, although it would be helpful. But I am growing to love the Sunday liturgy that immerses me each week in the story of Jesus, and especially this week, where I am invited to walk alongside Jesus through his passion, death and resurrection. For some reason, I now find this presentation of the gospel more powerful than a hundred evangelistic messages about how Jesus took the punishment for my sins and therefore I must put my faith in him and follow him. I’m weary of preachers telling me about how I theoretically need to go to Jesus; now I long to be in a community that approaches Jesus to stand in his presence in real time.

Yesterday I was tempted to post an article about my favorite saint of all, St. Pugnacious. He was a proponent of Pugnatian spiritual exercise where you meditate on the person that you despise most and imagine yourself beating him up. He was an associate of St Pusillanimous who, though he was beaten daily by Pugnatius, always remained his closest friend. The feast of St. Pusillanimous and Pugnatius falls on April 1.

]]>
By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17351 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 21:39:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17351 Thank you for this. One statement in particular stood out to me:

“No, it was only after I had the moral support of a loving wife and many godly and loyal friends willing to stand beside me so that, if the rest of UBF would throw me under the bus, it wouldn’t hurt nearly as bad.”

I agree with this. No one can speak up until they are supported. And one of Satan’s deception is to alienate us from others; he divides and conquers. I cannot speak up against injustice unless I have a support system. And thanks for sharing the article about worshiping the God who was abused. It speaks so much about God who did not save himself. He knows what abuse is and he is not apathetic to it. Jesus is so counter cultural.

]]>
By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17350 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 21:27:47 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17350 I practice the Ignatius examen. I find it helpful.

A couple of thoughts on the examen:
1. St. Ignatius did not invent it but he did kind of perfect it. The examen was something he thought was essential for growing the spiritual life.
2. Because the examen is supposed to be a reflection or examination of one’s day, he suggested doing it twice: once around noon and the other right before bed. Most people do it once a day at the end of the day.
3. Either way works whether individual or a group. Most people do it individually.
4. The examen might begin with a short bible verse to help one to recollect the day. However, the content of the prayer is God’s work over the course of time. Reading and praying over scripture is a different type of prayer.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17349 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:42:17 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17349 I did not personally witness it, but I vaguely remember hearing the account of what Lee did to the orchestra member. It was obvious that Lee was “out to train him” out of his “shepherd’s heart.” But unfortunately, in those days, I was fully complicit by simply trusting that God’s servant knew what he was doing, that he loved him “spiritually,” that he knew the him better than others, and that somehow the young man “needed” such discipline.

At that time, I believe that even his own parents did not see anything wrong with how their own son was treated, believing that Lee had the best of intentions.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17348 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:33:19 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17348 http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/come_from/headers_92661/Ktongue_in_cheek.gif

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17346 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:21:02 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17346 “You have exceeded your position and broken spiritual order.”
(WHERE IN THE HELL, OOPS-HEAVEN, DID THAT COME FROM?:)

“Whatever happens to you, you should accept it as God’s discipline and training.” I NOW PROCLAIM THIS ‘UP’ TO ALL ‘ELITE’ RELIGIO/EDUCATIO/POLITICO/ETCETERO PLAYERS AS MY VOICE EXUDES ONLY INCREASING TRUTH FOR PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE TO PRESS FOR RIGHT!

]]>
By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17345 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:17:54 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17345 Ben, I believe your last line must be tongue in cheek. How would anyone know that Jesus wouldn’t post an article on UBFriends that makes people angry? He did so many things that made the religious leaders lose face. The line “Jesus would never do that” doesn’t resonate with me much anymore because he did things that would surprise and upset anyone. Jesus was routinely called a sinner because his words and actions often looked sinful and were at odds with accepted biblical teachings. If Jesus walked among us today I have no doubt that we would see sin in him and project sin onto him.

]]>
By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17344 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:10:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17344 Joe, Thanks so much for your heart felt reflection, that I can fully resonate with.

Recently, a close friend told me that no one among the upper echelons of UBF will ever listen to you or respect you because you have NO HONOR and “NO FACE.”

At first this comment stung rather hard. I thought, “what, after knowing me for over 3 decades, and after all that I have done for ubf for 35 years and they regard me as having no honor and no face!”

Of course I’m not Jesus, but perhaps that is what they might also say of Christ. But then again, Jesus is perfect and sinless and Jesus would never do or say the dishonorable things that I have said and done, like sharing publicly on the Internet!

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17343 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:45:31 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17343 “Of course, there is some truth in what you say, but you did not say it correctly; you did not have the right tone of voice, so we cannot listen to you.” TOOBADADOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAY ONLY HARSH/STRONG TONES EXUDE FROM THUTHFUL VOICES UNTIL DEAF EARS HAVE UNSTOPPED:))))))))))))))))))

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17342 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:39:04 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17342 “In every account, the proximate cause of the crucifixion was the ire of a community that was upset by what Jesus said and did. Jesus was sent to his death by group that by all accounts was the most dedicated and religiously observant society in the world, the very people who saw themselves as the champions of biblical values, who spent endless hours studying the Bible and teaching people to live according to its teachings.”

PURSUIT OF KNOWLEDGE W/OUT PRACTICE IS LIKE ATHENIANS WERE IN GREECE, LIKE SAUL (PAUL) BECOMING PRAISED PHARISEE BUT PERSECUTING BELIEVERS OF THE WAY UNTIL HIS HIGH HORSE ‘ACCIDENT’ ON WAY TO DAMASCUS..STUDY IS NOT ONLY USELESS BUT DESTRUCTIVE W/OUT APPLICATION.

]]>
By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17341 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:37:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17341 “How can we worship a God who was abused if we are unwilling to reach out to the abused among us?”

http://boz.religionnews.com/2015/04/02/god-victim-child-abuse-survivor-taught-good-friday/

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17340 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:25:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17340 “And then to have every authority figure in his life — his parents, the orchestra conductor, and all the adults in his church — praising this pastor and urging him to submit to this guy no matter what he does because he is “God’s servant,”

GOD ALONE SHALL EVER BE PRAISED EVER AGAIN! FOR HE ALONE IS EVER WORTHY AT ALL THRUOUT HISTORY. PRAISECHRISTALONEDOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!!

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17339 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:19:38 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17339 “Lee repeatedly slapped him and punched him in the head. The young man wanted to leave, but the orchestra conductor urged him not to go.” CONDUCTOR MUST GO! & WE WONDER WHY PEOPLE DEVELOP MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES?

GUESS WE CAN’T ‘DRAW-N-QUARTER’ SOMEBODY ALREADY DEAD, BUT IDEA EXPRESSES THE OUTRAGE:)

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17338 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:13:03 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17338 “One example that is fresh in my mind is this testimony of a young man who discovered sexual abuse happening in his UBF chapter, along with other unpleasantries such as drug dealing, racist remarks and ethnocentricism. He brought these things to the attention of leaders and pastors, trusting that they would take corrective action. Instead, this young man was criticized, marginalized, accused and blamed; the “loving environment” of this gospel community became so toxic that he had no choice but to leave.” SUCH INCITES HELLFIRE/WRATH OF GOD, I’D HATE TO BE THOSE UNREPENTANT INFIDELS

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17337 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 19:04:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17337 “His message would embarrass the powers-that-be, so a decision is made to isolate the messenger, to blame him for everything and drive him out of the camp.” sounds like Jesus or John the Baptiste’:)

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17336 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:58:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17336 “Government agents retaliated against him, and major newspapers tried to discredit his work.” (tender incorrigible tikes who must be exposed to the maximum degree so as be pressed to do right:)

“Eventually the people closest to him, who had supported his efforts, succumbed to peer pressure and threw Webb under the bus.” (well-meaning but semi-chicken peers:)

MAY THE LORD GRANT US COURAGE! SUPERDOOBYDOYAH!

]]>
By: Mark Mederich http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/04/02/scapegoating-ignatian-spiritual-practice-and-the-subversive-gospel-of-passion-sunday-and-good-friday/#comment-17335 Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:31:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9093#comment-17335 the truth shall set us free (at least us honest ones; may put the government in jail:)

]]>