The other book looks interesting, too. Thanks for the suggestion.

1.) Dietrich Bonhoeffer – ‘Life Together’
it comforted me in my view on what church is irrespective of what People made of it

2.) Badru Kanteregga/David Shenk: A Muslim and a Christian in Dialogue

fantastic outline of both faiths in respectful but also in critical interaction

This book discusses the authors opinion of how to contrast healthy and unhealthy discipleship.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw&w=560&h=315

This is also true for the Korean missionaries in UBF. Not all were narcissists. And I still think that there were many things I could learn from the Koreans I met in UBF, and I’m thankful for that. That’s why I was so disappointed when I saw that UBF did not want to change and expelled all who wanted to change it in 2001, most of them being Koreans themselves. I still think there is much potential when Western people and Koreans meet and cowork. But only if they meet at the halfway point, if there is complete transparency and equality and no “system” behind everything, which unfortunately was not possible in UBF because of the narcissist leaders who never allowed that to happen and who benefitted from the strong UBF system that Samuel Lee had engraved into the minds of everyone there.

Charles, that’s really gem! Also, Jesus never seemed to care about writing down his words or having his disciples write them down. This only happened decades later; at least 2 of the gospels were not written by his direct disciples, and most of the letters were written by Paul who came very late to the party.

I know I am jaded by the ubfland I grew up in, but that is my reality. ubf was like a religious version of North Korea. For example, this story could easily be talking about the ubf I experienced for decades if you take out the guns/killing and replace them with bible/shunning North Korea executes Defense Chief, Hyon

“Hyon was executed because he expressed discontent towards leader Kim Jong Un, and failed to follow Kim’s orders on several occasions, according to Kim Gwang-lim, chairman of the National Assembly Intelligence Committee and a lawmaker with the Saenuri Party who attended the briefing.”

I really really struggle to show any respect for evangelicalism.

Orthodoxy by Gk Chesterton

Weight of Glory by Cs Lewis

Practical Mysticism
by Evelyn Underhill

Well said, Charles. That deeply resonates with me as of now as well. I’m trying to learn a bit about Ignatian spirituality myself and I want to incorporate some of it in my talk at Hyde Park UBF next month. I found this website: http://www.ignatianspirituality.com/

What I found in UBF was that I would hear a sometimes Western evangelical-style sermon which emphasized one’s individual life and personal response to/acceptance of the gospel and their subsequent calling (we even put a huge emphasis on one’s “personal ministry”). But then in community practice, uniformity was expected, the individual conscience was to be suppressed and social interactions were based upon honor/shame (all of which are thoroughly Eastern concepts). For me, this was massively confusing because mixed messages were being sent; it was almost schizophrenic in a sense. Don’t want this to sound like a negative rant, but that’s just the way it was. Anyway, I’m curious to know if there have been any scholarly attempts to address things like this. It seems like this is the real work of the gospel and that which Paul outlined in letters like Ephesians, but left up to the churches to specifically work out.

On partitioning the site, that’s not a bad idea because it would make things a bit neater or organized. Either way, I’m fine.

And, like Brian, I also have an emotional aversion right now to discussing material about Asian conceptions of the gospel. I felt the same about the writings of Jackson Wu. A voice in my head says, “Why on earth should I spend any more effort trying to develop a better understanding of missionaries who don’t give a damn what I think and probably never will?” If some were willing to join the discussion and demonstrated an ability to engage in healthy self criticism, then I might feel differently. But at this point it would be very hard for me to discuss Asian experiences of the gospel without veering off into unpleasant discussions about UBF with no participation on their part, and it seems pointless. Perhaps I will be able to do this in the future, but not yet.

And if Yong has a really great perspective and is truly self aware and self deprecating, it will just make me think, “I wish those missionaries had been like him.”

My suggested bookclub guidelines:

1. No mentioning of ubf, good or bad or ugly.
2. Read the book; discuss the book
3. No name-calling.
4. Show respect for diversity of theological backgrounds.
5. Seek to learn, share and connect.

Do we want to setup a “bookclub” section of ubfriends? That way people could continue to process ubf issues here. Or maybe we just mix them together? I’m fine either way. Suggestions?

I’m not able to handle an Asian author or Asian theology at this point. Maybe this could be on our radar for a reading list.

Seems like we have a good booklist here so far. Maybe we can get a suggested reading list based on these books and vote on which one goes first? Any other book choices?

Lesslie Newbigin: His books revolutionized my understanding of the gospel and mission. He can be challenging to read and understand, but if we put our minds together we can learn a great deal.

Scot McKnight: I have been slogging through his two most recent books. Both are about the relationship between gospel and church. Kingdom Conspiracy is a little more scholarly, and A Fellowship of Differents is written for a more popular audience, but it’s not a lightweight book by any means. Here is a review of the second book that may pique your interest.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/paperbacktheology/2015/03/scot-mcknights-a-fellowship-of-differents-can-change-your-view-of-the-church.html

Richard Rohr, Franciscan priest from New Mexico. After reading “Falling Upward,” which was recommended to me by John Armstrong, I read about a half a dozen of his books from the library, which are all very good.

Timothy Keller. One of the shortest books that he wrote “The Prodigal God” virtually changed my view of how to understand and communicate Scripture, not as a book of commands and imperatives and examples to follow, but as a gospel of the grace of God. The next book I read “Counterfeit Gods” solidified this indicative perspective. I could never go back to the way that I had previously taught the Bible after that. Here’s the link from over four years ago: http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/02/07/counterfeit-gods-and-the-bible/

The thought about the layers surfaced after reading his book. Before that I blamed ubf and only ubf. But this opened my eyes to see that I had to navigate numerous layers of issues. In and of themselves, each layer was not necessarily “bad”, but each one posed unique challenges.

On a side note, I am Facebook friends with Robb. He might be open to a Google hangout after we read and discuss his book. He has an excellent new ministry and would have many thoughts on how to re-invent ministry.

I like Danaher and Wright (and heard good things about Girard) in particular and would love to discuss any of their works.

Here are some of my favorite authors that I would like to read and discuss more about:

1. James Danaher
2. Henri Nouwen
3. NT Wright
4. Dorothy Day
5. René Girard