Comments on: Have the Conversation on LGBTQIA – Part 2 http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-19177 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:51:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9354#comment-19177 “So perhaps Galatians 3:28 is simply saying that male and female are equal in Christ, and is not saying that gender becomes immaterial in all senses? – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-19174

I would agree with this nuance, TomKent. In fact, medical science has long known that our humanity cannot be explained by pure “male and female” physiology/etc. My claim is not that gender goes away, but that gender is a spectrum beyond the binary male and female. So gender becomes even more important as the kingdom reformations continue. We need to develop new language as we understand more of our world and humanity, just as we did when Galileo and Copernicus explored the heavens. The way I describe this is that the male/female wineskin of thought is bursting.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-19174 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:40:46 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9354#comment-19174 In regard to your second sticking point, TomKent, I find the same situation. We must as a church revisit these Scriptures beyond the superficial readings.

“Scripture consistently portrays Christian marriage as heterosexual.”

This has at least two underlying currents that must be examined more closely. The statement as it stands is only sticky because it is loaded. A more accurate statement would be to break this up into its components:

1. Christian Tradition consistently portrays marriage as heterosexual.
2. Scripture catalogs numerous inconsistent marriage arrangements.
3. Scripture is consistently using a hetero-normative language.

So many questions arise. Because the tradition of marriage has been modified numerous times, might we modify it yet again to be more kind and inclusive? Should we continue upholding the male-dominated male-and-female gender roles portrayed in the Bible? If so, then how do we explain the female roles that most Christians have no problem ignoring? What do we do about the repeated New Covenant commands to kiss each other when going to a Christian assembly?

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-19172 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:34:46 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9354#comment-19172 When my son came out to us as gay, I had to rethink those sticking points. I realize now that these are only sticky because I never went beyond these superficial statements.

So when you think through these things, you find they are not sticking points at all, but rather fabrications not rooted in the text of Scripture.

For example: “In spots like Leviticus 18 and elsewhere, a natural reading seems to imply that such sexual relations are sinful irrespective of context.” What is implicit about Leviticus 18? That scripture is explicit: have gay sex, be killed. No exceptions. Therefore instead of making a generalization that this applies in all contexts, the Spirit led me to ask better questions to find out the context. The gospel, after all, is very contextualizable (yea made up a new word!).

The natural reading is that Leviticus 18 condemns homosexual practice and is in the context of the Old Covenant. So we must go deeper and ask why would God, who is love, put such a law in the Old Covenant? I have found amazing gospel-deepening answers to this.

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By: TomKent http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-19167 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:45:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9354#comment-19167 There are two key sticking points that traditionalist Christians have with gay marriage. The first is that Scripture repeatedly portrays gay relations as sinful. In spots like Leviticus 18 and elsewhere, a natural reading seems to imply that such sexual relations are sinful irrespective of context. IE that it would be sinful to do it even within a gay marriage.

The second sticking point is that Scripture consistently portrays Christian marriage as heterosexual. Passages such as Luke 14:26 and Ephesians 5 make no provision for Christian relationships that are not heterosexual. Even Jesus cited Genesis 2, portraying Christian marriage as being inherently heterosexual, in Matthew 19, and said that the alternative is the life of a eunuch. Some diss this by saying that Matthew 19 was about divorce. But in explaining why divorce is bad, Jesus also explained the meaning and structure of Christian marriage.

While Galatians 3:28 holds true. There are various other New Testament scriptures, such as Ive already cited, that indicate that gender distinction is still important. So perhaps Galatians 3:28 is simply saying that male and female are equal in Christ, and is not saying that gender becomes immaterial in all senses?

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By: bekamartin http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/14/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-2/#comment-18854 Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:05:10 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9354#comment-18854 This article really resonates with me, Brian! Thank you! I look forward to reading your books soon.

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