Comments on: End The Endless Self-Pruning… http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19133 Fri, 28 Aug 2015 04:11:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19133 Like you, I also received a benefit of learning discipline and hard work. But that’s not why I was going to what I thought was a church. I could have joined the actual military instead of the pseudo-spiritual army of a kingdom of priests and holy nation. Your article brought to mind Paul’s words in 1Ti 4:8, “For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come” (NIV). I knew I was a lazy person before I joined UBF. That part wasn’t added on during the writing of any testimonies. But I wasn’t trained in godliness and life. In fact, what I learned from UBF ultimately was what not to do. Philippians 3:7 says it best, “But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.”

Some in the LA chapter called me a UBF man. I had once been proud of that moniker. Then I was ashamed of it. When I changed my mind however, people strangely forgot how gung-ho I was for the ways of UBF and talked to me as if I had not known the organization or its teachings at all.

So now, I have a lot of loss as baggage I feel like I’m carrying around. I would not dare to go into another church and tell anyone I was a Bible teacher for 15 years, that I had done daily bread and wrote page after page for how many years without missing a day, or that I was a Sunday messenger for 7 years without a break. I could not say so without adding “…in a cult” at the end. I was a Sunday messenger for 7 years in a cult. I was a Bible teacher and leader in a cult.

Now, I try to remember the words to love others and to keep hold of that. It has helped me to open my mind in ways I hadn’t imagined, in many ways I had closed it as a UBF man.

]]> By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19132 Fri, 28 Aug 2015 04:02:50 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19132 About loving God, one thing I learned recently as well is that it isn’t about self-pruning at all, but loving others. It had became embarrassingly clear to me that loving others was neglected at UBF. I know many would disagree with me. But here was what I saw was ultimately going on. Endless self-pruning is part of it, and it part of the fruit of holding to a “personal relationship with God” only that does not love others or have in mind the community of brothers and sisters as real brothers and sisters (not sheep, coworkers, fellowship members, seniors, missionaries, shepherds, etc.). Teachers failed to listen to the rest of Jesus’ teaching:

Matthew 22:39-40 NIV
[39] And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ [40] All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

What did I see in and from, and do, in UBF? In the name of loving God, we didn’t stop at pruning ourselves. We started pruning others and teaching them self-pruning in the name of loving God and having faith in him. However we abused them and hurt them just as we were hurt because our teaching wasn’t sound. We took people away from their families, friends, schools and jobs. We physically and emotionally abused them. We took away their identities and gave them new ones.

Yet we didn’t care for them when they were hurt or cried out. Instead we made them to feel guilty about being hurt and to continue to honor their abuses as their senior servants of God. We taught them that it God’s will for them so they ought to shut up and wait for something to happen to make them happy and take their pain away. We taught them to forgive us who didn’t ask for forgiveness and who keep on hurting. And then they go and do the same and we praise them for it and promote them in the organization.

I clearly told the LA director and the LA planning committee in 2014 that we were hurting others without repentance and recourse, that we were doing what Jesus said of the Pharisees in Matthew 23:15 NIV,
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”

The whole end game was to make endless self-pruners and abusers like yourself, masked as “shepherd.”

]]> By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19131 Fri, 28 Aug 2015 03:58:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19131 Hi Kevin, thanks for sharing. I agree that loving God is not about the endless self-pruning we were taught and practiced in UBF. What you shared brings many things to mind which I’d like to share. Also, I remember in the summer of 2004 being in those weekly staff meetings with you a few others in Chicago. It seemed like an exercise in futility. Each “testimony” was really just the staff person reading word for word Ron Ward’s Sunday message with a few sprinkles here or there about their 1:1 adventures (or lack thereof that week) or some kind of obvious “I repent of…” as led by the message.

]]> By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19039 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:46:35 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19039 +1!

]]> By: Sharon http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19037 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 01:34:01 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19037 Kevin, I appreciate this post! I had such a similar experience, though I can tell you are a much more disciplined person than I am. I especially related to this: ” Though I was getting super efficient, I was depressed, without laughter, with momentary episodes of joy, and strained relationships. I doubted that anyone would ever choose to follow Christ, by looking at my life. What I was portraying was more, endless “boot camp” training than life in Christ.” Thank you so much for being honest and vulnerable. When faced with this problem, the answer is not, just trust and obey more. This way was crushing me. I found life when I instead realized that I needed to rest in the great salvation that Jesus accomplished/ Then I began to understand just a little bit of the abundant life he promises.

]]> By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19031 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:56:52 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19031 Thank you for sharing. Your honestly, openness and transparency takes courage. It reminded me of 2 things:

1.) My uncle told me that people mix up the results of the gospel for the gospel for the gospel. In Koch’s book, What we believe and why, in chapter four, he says that salvation is the essential, the if and only if, while sanctification is contingent off of it. The example that he gives is that being alive is the essential, while living a healthy lifestyle is not. Living a healthy lifestyle is important but it is not essentially important. Evangelism is good, daily bread is good, conferences are good, memorization is good, but they are not of first importance, as you wrote, dwelling with Christ is essential. (The book can be downloaded for free here, he does a much better job of explaining. http://www.whatwebelieveandwhy.com/Free_PDF)

2.) Have you heard about the book The Cure by John Lynch. It has been a game changer in my life. In the book he talks about two rods: a.) please God or b.) trust God. They both sound good, but the former leads to the room of “good intentions” and the latter to the room of grace. I don’t know about you, but I know what room I want to be in. If you cannot read his book he also has a wonderful youtube clip just type in “two faced John Lynch.” Here’s his web site: http://truefaced.com/

God bless you brother! And keep writing, keep sharing!

]]> By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19021 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:51:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19021 Kevin, these are great revelations, and I’m really glad to see you processing these things. One of my main discoveries has been that we enabled a theology/ideology called UBFism that cut too deeply into our souls and consciences. UBFism has some correct metaphors from the Bible, such as that of a soldier and of suffering and sacrifice. The issue is that UBFism takes these to an extra-Biblical area and way beyond what is healthy.

UBFism confuses you with this self-pruning, breaks you down and then sculpts a new identity that fits into KOPAHN.

]]> By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/11/end-the-endless-self-pruning/#comment-19000 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:20:32 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9419#comment-19000 Thank you for this amazing testimony. It reminds me of a passage from The Imitation ” Many are in obedience from necessity rather than from love; these take it amiss, and repine for small cause. Nor will they gain freedom of spirit, unless with all their heart they submit themselves for
the love of God.” On the flip side endless pruning for the wrong purpose and with the wrong center will strip a man away until he is nothing, but with himself so focused on himself there is nothing that can be put back. It is the danger of asceticism, a true focus on Jesus with the right mind set will see that anything given will be replaced abundantly, like the fields and crops from that passage in Joel.

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