…

Mark 4 known as the sower and the seed, is different even from ubf, where ubf is false in its very foundation, the sower and the seed describes not who just flee from consistently attending the Church that Worship’s God, but those who enter Churches and on their own chosing lead a life of meteocrity as they become stunted in their growth in God. This begins from a variety of reason including an individual seeking authority that is not theirs, self-rigtheousness, or burnout from trying do God’s work in themselves. What am I communicating? I am saying you should in fact be repulsed and hating the sin of homosexuality!

…

[admin note: Eric, we’ve been through this before… a lot of your comment here has been removed. I will not allow you to use my blog to make wild, illogical statements about UBF or about homosexuals. If you have a question or comment, please ask or state briefly. And I would ask you to refrain from questioning whether someone is saved or not.]

1. You bring up 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. I would caution us to look at this text carefully. Probably, you already know this… Here Paul is talking about immorality inside the church. He clearly says we are to associate with immoral people outside the church, but not let immorality rule the church. So this text supports one of my main points: Christians are to associate (to a point) with non-believers, including a non-believing homosexual. We Christians are not to condemn and dissociate from non-believing homosexuals. How else could they ever hear the gospel?

2. The questions, then, are how do we treat a homosexual who believes the gospel of Jesus? And how do we preach the gospel to such a person? Do we demand such a person to practice heterosexuality?

3. Associating “alcoholism” with “homosexuality” is very unhealthy and unhelpful. That is what Christians and non-Christian people have discovered.

4. I think Scripture tells us to have a gospel-centric, Christ-centric approach to all “sins”. Scripture plainly teaches that there is sin does not lead to death, and sin that does lead to death. And Jesus clearly teaches that there are problems after the Fall that have nothing to do with sin.

5. I’m fascinated that Christians seem to be fixated on homosexuality, demanding 100% conformance to holiness. I see this approach nowhere else, except in highly legalistic organizations.

6. Penal substitution is a key part of the message of the cross. But sin is only one of the problems the cross addresses. The gospel is comprehensive good news about sin, law, curse, death and brokenness.

7. “I can agree that doctors may testify about their inability to cure orientation. But are they able to cure alcoholism, heterosexual immorality, drugs/computer addiction?” Yes, to a point. They testify that these problems are very different from the homosexual orientation issue. If a heterosexual simply chooses to experiment with homosexuality, then I would agree with you and such a thing is similar to alcoholism. But there does exist a homosexual orientation that is different and is not a disease or disorder.

“who told you that there is a person who is born homosexual?”

1. No one “told me”. This is what I’ve learned after discussions with a friend from 30 years ago, and from reading Freud and other’s opinions on homosexuality, which included statements against homosexuality by Christian greats. You can even discern such truth from John Piper’s “dark exchange” sermons.

2. The leading homosexual ministry of the Christian world in th West is Exodus International. They have long acknowledged that there is a homosexual orientation that cannot be chosen, and homosexual action that is chosen. All views on homosexuality that are in synch with Scripture make such distinction. Recently, Exodus International became opposed to the “gay cure” method and firmly rejects it based on their decades of ministry. They have rejected the gay cure approach. The WHO also rejects the cure approach.

3. As I’ve said before here, Dr. Robert Spitzer apologized and admitted that some of his key research was flawed and misinterpretted, and that there is no cure for homosexuality, because it is not a disease or a disorder (though it is a minority abnormality technically). See his story here: Dr. Spitzer’s apology to gay community.

4. Throughout history there have been many who testify that homosexuality is something that most homosexuals will have to live with their entire life. So yes, there is a choice in how to deal with homosexuality, but I contend that we must interact with homosexuals understanding that they wont’ be able to become heterosexual.

“Why is the new life of a christian called new birth, not a change?”

This is not an either/or situation. Scripture calls the new life of Christ both “new birth” and “a change”. We are born again (justified) and then we embark on a journey of faith in which the Holy Spirit changes and renews us (sanctified).

“But it seems that you teach that a gay person may “live by faith” and under grace though practicing his sins in his heart and mind and acts, without any change (but in his thinking style), not to mention without being born again.”

Not quite what I am saying. I am saying this: a gay person may “live by faith” and under grace though remaining homosexual in his heart and mind and acts, and will, because of grace and the Spirit, be radically changed and transformed for the glory of God (such as eventually stopping promiscuity, finding God’s hope for life, finding a monogamous relationship, dealing with transformation in non-homosexual sins, etc).

“In your opinion, does Christ really save from anything?”

Yes, I see a five-fold problem that Christ saves from: sin, death, law, curse, brokenness. But this is also a “saving to”. We are saved from and to, and our final “saving” is in Heaven, the only time and place where believers in grace will be fully glorified. Grace gives us power to resist sin and overcome temptation and rise up after failure, but does not remove sin completely from our lives. Sin is in our DNA until we die. Only the grace of God opens the way to live after death. Only the grace of God enables us to live now.

“What kind of Christ is he if he does not save from sin, though says “Go now and leave your life of sin”?”

I think you should read Romans 2. Have you left your life of sin? Do you have any sins that remain with you for decades?