Comments on: Summary of 4 Attempts to Reform UBF http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/ my journey of recovery from University Bible Fellowship Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:34:31 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6.1 By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-2246 Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:12:02 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-2246 Sarah,

I sent you email privately, but I hope to publish something you have to share. It would be helpful to know more about CMI and how it was formed, especially how it relates to UBF.

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By: Sarah http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-2236 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 07:42:56 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-2236 Hi could you give me your email address so that I can explain about 2001reform and the beginning of CMI ? I am a former UBF korean missionary.

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By: HKUBF http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1574 Wed, 30 May 2012 07:55:01 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1574 Well said, Brian! You are not alone. We all lived in a fantasy land for a quite long time before. It was too much to bear cos the disconnect between perception and the reality was very serious. But Thank God we came back to reality.

I would say the fantasy land an “utopia” which can not exist in reality. In this Utopia, UBF members have to pretend. They have to pretend to be holier than the others. They have to pretend that they really have a shepherd heart. They have to pretend that they love Jesus more than anyone ……

In this Utopia, UBF members have to imagine. They need to act many many roles and they have to imagine. They need to treat the others as sheep while we treat ourselves as their shepherds. Then they need to imagine that they are really their shepherds, like Moses, David, Jesus, etc. Sometimes they need to imagine that they are David who fight Goliath (Enemy). Sometimes they need to imagine that they are Jesus who rebukes the Pharisees (Enemy). Sometimes they need to imagine that they are Jesus who is very poor and feeds the sheep from dawn till sundown (shepherd heart). Sometimes they need to imagine that the missionaries are Moses and “somebody” are Korah (especially when “rebellion” happens! Who is “somebody”? Let’s find out the answer yourself.) And then, they will pretend to embrace their weakness, pray for their sins, teach them something or even rebuke them, etc.. (Sometimes their imagination is too real that they cannot even distinguish it is real or not. This may cause psychological disorders.)

However, in reality, they are nothing. They are just pity man who have been fooled for a long time. They need somebody give helping hands and to tell them the truth of the matter although it is not easy for them to accept the fact at the beginning.

Those who left UBF has came back the reality and he has got rid of UBF’s hireachchy. They can see clearly that UBF is an abusive church and the leaders are just manipulators.

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By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1569 Wed, 30 May 2012 00:04:10 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1569 ” But in reality…”

My point a year ago, exactly! I spent 24 years in UBF… it was like I was always in a fantasy land. The disconnect between perception and the reality (of myself, others, the world) became too much for me to bear. I had to come back to reality. Now I blog for the future, for the next exodus of leaders (in about 2019 or so, I predict). I blog to undo my public defense of UBF in 2004.

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By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1568 Wed, 30 May 2012 00:00:02 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1568 Hi Zoe, perhaps you found the link, but my article here points to both, as well as a discussion of the differences in the two versions:

http://www.priestlynation.com/archives/976

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By: Zoe http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1564 Tue, 29 May 2012 23:23:54 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1564 This is such a good summary it’s mind-boggling. It reminds me of how stupid I have felt at times for staying in UBF so long.

Brian, where can we see the two different copies of the final lecture for the 50th anniversary?

As you have pointed out, if you want to try to bring it down to a bottom line, the real problem with UBF is that in writing everything seems biblical and Christ-centered. But in reality, the mission-driven mindset is totally disconnected from the Spirit of Christ and SPIRIT-DRIVEN ministry and mission and life and leads only to guilt and fear which are not of the Lord.

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By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1316 Tue, 08 May 2012 13:49:23 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1316 JohnY:

“we in the planning teams experienced complete support and encouragement from the UBF leadership”

Complete support and encouragement? Really? You imply you had no struggle over this and the senior UBF leaders were so happy to have Rand come and speak and lead a “Spirit-session”. Is this really true? I know that such a blanket statement is not an honest testimony of what happened.

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By: John Y http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1299 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:32:30 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1299 Thanks Anonymous for clarifying that for me. I am glad you were blessed by the Well, and would be happy to talk to you in person about anything related to its planning. I just have a knee-jerk reaction against the general rumor mill in our UBF ministry (and in online cyberspace like this one) because rumors tend to have a divisive effect even though what is communicated might have been honestly shared between individuals. I am a chief sinner in this respect, so just letting you know where I’m coming from. I’m taking a break from blogging for now but feel free to talk to me in person if you have any questions.

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By: anonymous http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1298 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:23:55 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1298 Sorry, I wasn’t trying to claim anything. I attended The Well and was very blessed by it. At the same time, there were a few rumors going around about the things that occurred in 2011, and a few people mentioned that some of the senior staff had issues with your invitation of Rand Tucker as a guest speaker.

I’ve mentioned before that most of my sources are hearsay. People say things before and after service and GBS, between programs at conferences, over lunch, etc. By no means am I claiming that my sources are 100% accurate.

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By: John Y http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1264 Sun, 06 May 2012 05:09:22 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1264 As one who was involved in the planning details of the Well, I would say that it is NOT true that people were “reprimanded” simply for inviting an outside speaker. UBF staff conferences, for instance, invite outside speakers all the time. And yes, honest feedback was given regarding various aspects of the Well conference, as anyone is always welcome to their own honest opinions about speakers, program styles, conference management etc. However, this is not the forum in which I would prefer to discuss the details of what that honest feedback did entail.

But please note this (for this might come as a surprise for regular readers of Brian’s blogs): we in the planning teams experienced complete support and encouragement from the UBF leadership to not only invite an outside speaker but to follow the Spirit’s leading to organize a different style of conference that we thought would better minister to the needs of those who attended. And I say this only to address the implicit tone that I sensed was underlying anonymous’ question.

Anonymous, I appreciate the question, but would appreciate it even more if anonymous would kindly share these facts to the original source of that claim. Thank you!

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By: anonymous http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1261 Sun, 06 May 2012 00:21:05 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1261 Yes, I was referring to Rand Tucker.

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By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1255 Sat, 05 May 2012 22:12:53 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1255 I don’t know about the planning details behind the Well, anonymous. Perhaps if John Y. is reading this he could comment. I do know that Rand Tucker spoke there.

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By: anonymous http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1244 Sat, 05 May 2012 19:27:35 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1244 “…the invitation of non-UBF speakers at North American Staff conferences.”

I heard that people in charge of The Well (formerly YDC) were reprimanded for inviting an outside speaker…

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By: briank http://www.priestlynation.com/summary-of-4-attempts-to-reform-ubf/#comment-1232 Sat, 05 May 2012 12:30:40 +0000 http://www.priestlynation.com/?p=1002#comment-1232 I want to share some clarification from a former UBF member regarding the 2001 movement. The people who know the facts about these events are dead or dying. Please feel free to add or correct facts!

“In one passage you write that the 2001 movement was initiated by Koreans from Chigao. I’m not sure about that. There were several large movements in Korea, Germany and the US which shared the same goals and communicated with each other, but I’m not sure which one was first. I tend to believe it originated in Korea where they established a “reform committee”. Many chapters in the world followed their example, because these missionaries were sent out by these reform chapters and considered their leaders their shepherds. Other chapters in the world did not follow, because their mother chapter in Korea was hardcore. After all, in UBF people tend to follow their shepherds. The reform movement in the US was a bit special because they contacted the reformers of 1984 to get advice, some of who had already left UBF and were reluctant to participate because they saw little hope.”

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