Recently John Baik has sent a junior member (who goes by the alias Jared Allen) to defend El Camino UBF.
Hi Eric, my name isn’t JARED btw, it’s just an Alias I use.
I read most of you stories and read what you wrote here in the email. First a little about me, I’ve been attending Shepherds Church for about 2 years now, I don’t really recall seeing you in particular but I have been there for 2 years now. I know some of the brothers like you mentioned Saleh, Darius, Ivan, Mason, Leo, Roberto, Bao, Ty, Herman, Pedro, Moses etc. And some of the sisters such as Inez, Alexandra, Elizabeth, April Boos, Lizzy, lily, Melissa, Sarah and others etc.
I’m the kind of guy who just goes about my business and leave. Most of them are “ok” but there is only a few people there I would say that I am “cool” with.
I definitely do not agree with many things the church does, but I never had to experiences you’ve had with others so I’m just intrigued in trying to understand your story.
[Hi Jared]
I would like to talk to you in person and I can go over more details and maybe get coffee. Here my number for text
(323)-537-3618. You can text me anytime except midnight-5am. When you text me let me know its you and not a telemarketer.
–Eric
Eric Navas <navas.eric3@gmail.com>
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The fact that you avoid the one question I asked you while I have been answering your questions had definitely got me a bit suspicious of you. If you did this to anyone else that doesn’t know know you they could accuse you of spying. curving, bait and switch, and the like.
I’m not avoiding that question, no I haven’t spoken to ex members because I don’t know any ex members.
And I read that post before on the UBF website.
Honestly, it sounds like a whiny post.
The reason that person left was from “years of spiritual and psychological abuse”? Get a grip. Like seriously. There is no abuse. More so it’s a whiny person who didn’t have to courage to do his own thing and say no when he needed to. Everybody there is seriously some of the nicest people you will meet. Period.
Hierarchies?
Yeah missionary John is at the “top”, because he been preaching for a long time and started the church. But who cares? I don’t come there for positions or for him, I come to learn about God and that’s it. Don’t care about positions and other nonsense. If you cared about these things Eric, then I question your commitment to God.
Secret finances?
If you question where the money goes, then don’t donate. Simple. Problem solved.
Rebuking and spiritual bullying?
From who? If my shepherd says or does something I don’t like, or anyone else on the “spiritual food chain” I say my opinion and that’s it. If I disagree I say I disagree. If I don’t want to do something, I don’t do it. It’s simple. I really don’t understand why you and the author of that article are complaining. I really don’t. I’ve said everything under the sun to my shepherd, I’ve had disagreements with John Boos, and other brothers and sisters, and they still appreciate me and respected me. I’m not fake, so if I gotta say something, I’ll bluntly say it. And I’ve never had any issues.
So reflecting back on my experiences, if I am the way I am and I’m doing fine there, but YOU couldn’t get along there, then I question your character.
Honestly some of the stuff you say And do, does come across as wired, or unsocially calibrated. Like for example, why did you even start a blog about shepherd’s church? Like for what? What are you trying to accomplish? Posting peoples personal information and Facebook links, like why? Those people are nice and I’ve never had a problem with them. They are caring and have your back. That seems socially uncalibrated to me. Then you constantly talk about your beef with Ty Rothrock. Ty is a chill dude. And he cares, he cared enough to still try and fish you after all that nonsense you did.
And you mentioned your friendship with Sarah. First off, if you had any issues why did you have to text Sarah? Why didn’t you just man up and talk to her in person if you wanted to discuss it that badly? Why didn’t you just go straight to missionary John? Instead of her? Of course they thought it was weird. And was she really your friend? Because if she was, she would be responded to you and talked to you instead blowing you off and telling missionary John right?
Then you said im your blog that she has this sad look and her face and never was the same. Well Sarah looks fine to me. She’s smiling and happy, I see her and looks totally happy and fine without you. So that fact that you said that seems weird to me.
Then I checked your Facebook page and you have some newspaper photo of a UBF article. That in itself isn’t a big deal, but when you look at the totality of the ordeal with you and your blog, what you do, it just comes off as weird. Like you have some personal vendetta against the church for some weird and unsubstantiated reason. It comes across as if you have no life and your life purpose is to “get back” or “expose” the church, so you spend countless hours on your blog.
I’m trying to understand your story, but you kind of come across as weird, like in that sense I can understand why missionary John said “you never had a place here”. Maybe you never did anything, talk to anybody? Idk man.
And also, I talk to whoever I want when I want. Nobody has ever approached me and said not to talk to this brother or lady, because I do what I want when I want.
That is John Baik’s defense through the indirect use of Jared.
Here is my commentary/analysis:
I’m not avoiding that question, no I haven’t spoken to ex members because I don’t know any ex members.
The question more specifically the offer Jared is still avoiding is regarding to meet up in person to have a conversation. A simply No would have suffice. Whether who know the ex-members or not shouldn’t matter when it comes to being open minded.
And I read that post before on the UBF website.
ubfriends is not a UBF website since 2012.
Honestly, it sounds like a whiny post.
By post he is referring to the
open letter sent to the church. If it truly is just a whiny post why would Baik go through so much trouble to have a very late night meeting about it?
The reason that person left was from “years of spiritual and psychological abuse”? Get a grip. Like seriously. There is no abuse. More so it’s a whiny person who didn’t have to courage to do his own thing and say no when he needed to. Everybody there is seriously some of the nicest people you will meet. Period.
Jared is already making judgments and conclusions on the ex-member who wrote the open letter despite the fact that he doesn’t know him at all let alone made no attempt to contact him.
Hierarchies?
Yeah missionary John is at the “top”, because he been preaching for a long time and started the church. But who cares? I don’t come there for positions or for him, I come to learn about God and that’s it. Don’t care about positions and other nonsense. If you cared about these things Eric, then I question your commitment to God.
I dont care about positions. By God Jared is referring to UBF
Secret finances?
If you question where the money goes, then don’t donate. Simple. Problem solved.
This is literally the only thing that I agree with Jared on.
Rebuking and spiritual bullying?
From who? If my shepherd says or does something I don’t like, or anyone else on the “spiritual food chain” I say my opinion and that’s it. If I disagree I say I disagree. If I don’t want to do something, I don’t do it. It’s simple. I really don’t understand why you and the author of that article are complaining. I really don’t. I’ve said everything under the sun to my shepherd, I’ve had disagreements with John Boos, and other brothers and sisters, and they still appreciate me and respected me. I’m not fake, so if I gotta say something, I’ll bluntly say it. And I’ve never had any issues.
Jared’s arguments like this one have very little basis thus making them weak. The reason being is because he solely relies on his experiences only instead of looking at all perspectives and all different types of sources. After this point Jared stops responding to the open letter. He just responds to 3 of the 9 points that the writer made. That is literally only a third of the letter. What do you have to say about the rest of the letter?
So reflecting back on my experiences, if I am the way I am and I’m doing fine there, but YOU couldn’t get along there, then I question your character.
Why only my character? What about the other 19 members who also left? From this point on Jared delivers ad hominem remarks
Honestly some of the stuff you say And do, does come across as wired, or unsocially calibrated
Apparently being an non-comformist/introvert is a crime.
Like for example, why did you even start a blog about shepherd’s church?
As a response to Baik and Rothrock sending Elva to harass my family. From that moment on I vowed to never again be silent about such injustices.
Posting peoples personal information and Facebook links, like why?
The personal info is so that people can contact them to hear their perspective and let them make their own judgment call after hearing both sides. As for the Facebook it is a citation of my sources.
Then you constantly talk about your beef with Ty Rothrock.
My beef is with UBF as a whole not on one man.
Ty is a chill dude. And he cares, he cared enough to still try and fish you after all that nonsense you did.
This is FALSE. Rothrock didn’t try to fish me. For what really happened look at
part 2 of my personal narrative. Apparently getting threatened with police is considered “caring”.
And you mentioned your friendship with Sarah. First off, if you had any issues why did you have to text Sarah?
I had no idea texting someone is a crime. No wonder you didn’t text me Jared.
Why didn’t you just man up and talk to her in person if you wanted to discuss it that badly?
That’s ironic for you to talk about “manning up” considering the fact that you are using an alias.
Why didn’t you just go straight to missionary John? Instead of her? Of course they thought it was weird.
Treating people as equals is considered weird being in UBF that is deemed as violating the spiritual order. I have gone to John Baik about an issue and he promised to resolve it but he didn’t. The issue was that Felicia Yanagi would try to commit adultery with me and I tried to avoid her but to no avail. For that reason I came believe that John Baik is unreliable
And was she really your friend? Because if she was, she would be responded to you and talked to you instead blowing you off and telling missionary John right?
Shortly after I left I realized that my friendship with Sarah Baik was superficial. Seeing this revelation that she betrayed me (I consider this as betrayal) I now accept the fact that she is somebody that I used to know and nothing more.
Then you said im your blog that she has this sad look and her face and never was the same. Well Sarah looks fine to me. She’s smiling and happy, I see her and looks totally happy and fine without you. So that fact that you said that seems weird to me.
Once again another claim with very little basis.
Then I checked your Facebook page and you have some newspaper photo of a UBF article.
In my Facebook profile I have added newspaper clippings of the media reports on UBF as photos.
That in itself isn’t a big deal, but when you look at the totality of the ordeal with you and your blog, what you do, it just comes off as weird.
This is contradictory. On one end it is not a problem. But one the other end it is. So which is it? If being weird is a crime call me a criminal.
Like you have some personal vendetta against the church for some weird and unsubstantiated reason.
UBF is not a church but a Korean cult that broke off from the Presbyterian Church back in 1975.
It comes across as if you have no life and your life purpose is to “get back” or “expose” the church, so you spend countless hours on your blog.
If I truly have no life would these photos even exist Jared?
I’m trying to understand your story
This is half-true. You are trying something. But you are not trying to understand my story. Rather it appears you are trying to disprove it.
Maybe you never did anything, talk to anybody? Idk man.
Apparently this
blog is considered nothing despite the fact that one of the members betrayed me by blowing me off instead of telling me directly that they have a problem with it. To this day I am still searching for the original betrayer.
And also, I talk to whoever I want when I want. Nobody has ever approached me and said not to talk to this brother or lady, because I do what I want when I want.
For those who want to know who Jared Allen is or wish to speak to him here is
his email.
Ah the sweet, naive innocence of a sheep! Jared is in for a rude awakening when he becomes a shepherd. He’s been there 2 years? Let’s show him some kindness. He will need it as he progresses through the shepherd training model. He has about 4 more years to go at most before the depression kicks in.
Jared is still in the love bombing stage.
Jared, do chill dudes really threaten to call the cops on those they care about?
Jared, what do you think about the rest of the open letter the major part that you didn’t answer to before?:
Favoritism: Have you noticed that some sheep are treated better than others? It is true that if you are the sheep of a prominent Shepherd (like John Boos), then you will receive special treatment and be given special positions within the church, such as being the presider at Sunday worship service. Also, why was it that one very young disciple was recently allowed to go to the UBF Korea trip instead of other shepherds who have been in the ministry far longer? The answer is simple. He is the sheep of Missionary John Baik, and he of course was moved to the front of the line! Also, how come Missionary John’s children do not have to abide by the same rules as everyone else? Two of them hardly ever come to worship service or testimony sharing. One of his daughters is even involved in another ministry outside UBF! This is absolutely not fair. Why are all of the members of the church placed under such strict rules when it comes to attending worship service, when his own children are not?
A horrible online reputation: It is no secret that UBF has a terrible online reputation. Just run a quick Google search and you will find thousands of blogs from ex-UBF members who were abused by the UBF system. In fact, the UBF church has been seen as a cult for well over fifty years by the mainstream Christian community. UBF was even expelled from the National Association of Evangelicals due to years of claimed abuses by former members. Do you really want to be associated with a church system that does this to other people? How would Jesus Christ view this?
Loyalty to the group equals loyalty to God: There is no joking here. It is true that at Shepherd’s Church, the more loyal that someone is to the ministry, then they are considered more loyal to God. There are closed door meetings here at the church where Missionary John will regularly criticize other members without their knowledge. They are referred to as “being weak” or “not being one with us”. What good does this do? All this does it put people into groups (the spiritual vs. the unspiritual) and serves as a way to bring down a person’s reputation. How can a God-fearing church do these kinds of things to their own members? How could Missionary John himself make a determination on who is spiritual and who is not? The criteria that he uses is based upon how committed someone is to carrying out the goals and activities of the ministry. He also rarely ever gets to know new sheep personally, but rather he relies upon information from their shepherd or other leaders to make a determination. It is also no secret that if someone disagrees with a church teaching or practice, then they will automatically be labelled as “rebellious” and shunned by other members of the church.
Excessive Control Over Sheep’s Lives: The entire goal of Shepherd’s Church is to control every aspect of its members lives. This does not happen right away, but it occurs little bits at a time. After several years, many shepherds find that they are slaves to the ministry and must do anything that is asked of them. Why does the ministry do this? The reason that this is done is because they want to create as many house churches as possible so that they can spread UBF ideology across the United States and the world. This is why they want you to separate from your family and your past life. The ministry will always identify an area in your life that you must give up. They will make it seem as if God himself is ordering you to do this, when it is really the shepherd who is telling you. UBF wants you to eliminate all areas of your life that will conflict with their ideals and goals. They also do this with your marriage as well. Do you want to know the secret behind marriage by faith? Missionary John and his church leadership deliberately match people up who are complete opposite from one another. This is not because their differing characteristics will “balance each other out” as they claim, but rather it is to prevent the couple from having any kind of a real relationship with each other. If the couple has no connection with each other, then they will be forced to focus more time on “campus mission”. Marriage by faith has never been about the happiness of the couple, but rather, continuing the goals of the UBF ministry. In the UBF system, the more disciples that you “establish”, then the more honor you are given in the ministry. That is why shepherds are so adamant about controlling their sheep with an iron fist. They are doing this to promote their own image in the church and to gain positive recognition from the body. If you are a shepherd and you think it is your job to control every aspect of your sheep’s life, then read this bible verse from the apostle Peter himself: “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock” (1 Peter 5: 2-3). There you go. As shepherds, we have no right to excessively control and monitor the lives of another person.
Submission to man over submission to God: Have you noticed that the teaching at the church highly promotes submission to God’s servants no matter what? Yes, God does use his servants to carry out his will, but that is not the only way in which he works. What about guidance from the Holy Spirit? How many people at Shepherd’s Church can truly claim that the Holy Spirit actually guided their life decisions and actions? Probably very few. In fact, almost everyone’s career, college major, marriage, living areas, and just about everything else is under the strict control of one’s shepherd. How is it that a shepherd can truly represent God? We all make mistakes and fall into sin. Even the disciples made mistakes (even after Jesus had long died). Ultimately, we must submit to God, and to nothing else. Submission to man, an ideology, or a particular ministry should never override God. We can meet God through studying His Word, praying, and fellowship with other believers.
No hierarchies just some guy with more experience no wonder you are falling apart you have broken God’s spiritual order. You need to restore God’s hierarchies that existed before man was cursed through trying to change the order. Boss around these ex members on the authority God has given you and make them stop or they will trample all over you. These ex members clearly are not putting God first otherwise they would not criticize your leaders they have broken creation order and it is your job to put them in their place.
He created man in his own image,
for his glory. Genesis teaches us creation order: God is first, mankind is
under God, and mankind is over all the rest of creation. When this creation
order is kept, men are happy and God is pleased. But the great tragedy of
the world occurred in Genesis 3—the fall of man. Because of Satan’s
temptation, man sinned. Sin entered the world, and death followed (Ro
5:12). Man broke spiritual order and God’s good creation became corrupt and
violent. All creation was cursed.
(v) In Genesis 3:15, God cursed Satan. He promised that the offspring of
the woman would someday crush his head. Bad news for Satan is good news for
mankind. Since the fall, God has sought to redeem mankind and restore in
him his broken image. God and man long for Paradise and creation order to
be restored.
http://www.chicagoubf.org/dsl/genesis/Intro.txt